Detecting Gravitational Waves: Earth-Like Planet Possibility

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the theoretical possibility of developing a gravitational wave detector sensitive enough to detect gravitational waves from Earth-like planets. Participants explore the implications of such a detection on established principles in physics, particularly the equivalence principle, and the challenges associated with measuring such weak signals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the meaning of "theoretically possible" in the context of detecting gravitational waves from Earth-like planets, suggesting it may lead to a debate.
  • One participant notes that the gravitational waves from an Earth-like planet would be significantly weaker than those from black hole mergers, raising concerns about detection feasibility.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of providing calculations and links to relevant readings to support claims about detection possibilities.
  • There is a discussion about the equivalence principle and whether a detector sensitive to Earth-like gravitational waves would challenge its validity.
  • Some participants argue that gravitational waves are produced by mass acceleration, and the nature of these waves differs from constant gravitational fields.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of the original question and whether it adequately addresses the complexities involved in detecting such weak signals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the feasibility of detecting gravitational waves from Earth-like planets or the implications for the equivalence principle. Multiple competing views remain regarding the theoretical and practical aspects of the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for quantitative analysis and clarification of terms used in the discussion, particularly regarding the equivalence principle and the conditions under which gravitational waves are produced.

  • #31
roineust said:
Is the equivalence principle defined in such a way that it is experimentally non-falsifiable?

No. @Ibix described how it could be falsified.

DaveC426913 said:
Is it falsifiable without invoking physics-defying materials?

This is the wrong way to look at it. Falsifying the EP would mean falsifying our current theories of physics, so of course if our current theories of physics are correct the EP will not be falsified. But that doesn't mean the EP is not falsifiable. It is perfectly possible to test whether the EP is true. It just so happens that in our universe it passes the test.
 
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  • #32
roineust said:
Is the equivalence principle defined in such a way that it is experimentally non-falsifiable?

For example: the region is defined to always be smaller than the area that any future equipment will be able to measure?
Have a look at an analogous principle:

"A sphere has every point on its surface equidistant from its center." (that is, in fact, the definition of a sphere)

What you are asking is: "If I look at the sphere with a powerful enough microscope, can I invalidate that principle?"

You have a real-world sphere that is not perfect, and a powerful microscope would indeed detect irregularities in a sphere made of atoms.

Does that invalidate the principle above? No.
 
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  • #33
DaveC426913 said:
Have a look at an analogous principle I just made up.

It's not analogous. Your "principle" is a tautology, since part of the definition of a sphere is that it has the same radius at every point on it.

The EP is not a tautology; it is not a logically necessary proposition.
 
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  • #34
PeterDonis said:
It's not analogous. Your "principle" is a tautology, since part of the definition of a sphere is that it has the same radius at every point on it.

The EP is not a tautology; it is not a logically necessary proposition.
It's not the best analogy, granted. The point is that the Equivalence principle doesn't have a minimum resolution, below which it's not valid. That seems to be what the OP thinks.
 
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  • #35
DaveC426913 said:
the Equivalence principle doesn't have a minimum resolution, below which it's not valid

Yes, agreed. It is a local proposition; the best way to formulate it is actually in terms of properties of worldlines and tetrads carried by observers on those worldlines, not properties of regions of spacetime.
 
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  • #36
DaveC426913 said:
Is it falsifiable without invoking physics-defying materials?
I don't think it's all that outrageously physics-defying. In Newtonian physics, all we need to do is say that ##F=kGMm/r^2##, where ##k=1## for normal matter and ##k=2## for this hypothetical matter. That ##k## is always 1 is merely something we happen to have observed - there's no other reason for it.

Relativity insists that there is a reason, that matter follows geodesics. This means that the coordinate acceleration of a free-falling body cannot depend on its mass, only on its position - i.e. the equivalence principle. So observing masses accelerating at different rates would falsify the equivalence principle.
 
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  • #37
DaveC426913 said:
Not sure this helps the OP.

Is it falsifiable without invoking physics-defying materials?
@Ibix is correct. Since our universe follows the equivalence principle of course a violation will be “physics defying”. But the point is that you can take any pair of materials and perform the experiment. If you ever find one that behaves as @Ibix described then the principle is falsified. Until we did similar experiments it was not a forgone conclusion.
 
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  • #38
Thread closed temporarily for Moderation...
 
  • #39
Since the OP is on vacation, this thread will remain closed. In short, gravitational waves are a prediction of GR so obviously they do not falsify GR nor any of the basic GR principles.
 

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