Difference in potential energy of two charge configurations

In summary, the conversation is discussing two configurations, ##C_1## and ##C_2##, each with ##N## point charges, and determining the smallest value of ##N## where ##V_1>V_2##. The approach involves calculating the potential energies for each configuration and setting them equal to each other to solve for ##N##. The solution for ##N## is found to be 12.
  • #1
theideasmith
1
0
Chapter 24, Question 61

Given two configurations, ##C_1##, ##C_2## of ##N## point charges each, determine the smallest value of ##N## s.t. ##V_1>V_2##.

##C_1##:

##N## point charges are uniformly distributed on a ring s.t. the distance between adjacent electrons is constant

##C_2##:

##N-1## point charges are uniformly distributed on a ring s.t. the distance between adjacent electrons is constant and one charge is placed in the center of the ring.

Approach I

1. If we consider a gaussian surface inside the ring, ##E=0##. We know that the voltage at the center of the ring is $$V_\text{center}=\frac{Ne}{r}$$ and furthermore, because $V=\int E\circ ds$, $$V_\text{inside} = V_\text{center}$$
2. From this previous result, $$U_1 = eV_\text{center} = \frac{N(N-1)e^2}{r}$$
3. ##C_2##
the configuration potential without the center electron is $$(1/2)(N-1)(N-2)\frac{e}{r}$$ The center electron adds ##(N-1)\frac{e}{r}## yielding $$U_2 = (1/2)(N-1)(N-2)\frac{e}{r} + (N-1)\frac{e}{r}$$
4. Let ##k = \frac{e}{r}##, and, setting ##(N^2-N)k = (N^2-3N+2)k+(2N-2)k##
$$\implies 0=0$$

Approach II

Let ##N## charges be arranged along a circle with radius ##R##. The position of an arbitrary particle at an angle ##\theta## relative to the positive direction of the x-axis is ##\vec{P}(\theta) = (R\cos\theta, R\sin\theta)##. Pick one charge located at angle $\theta = \theta_i$ and another particle located at ##\theta = \theta_j## relative to the positive direction of the x-axis. The distance between the two particles ##\vec{r}## is

$$
\begin{align}
\vec{r} &= \|\vec{P}(\theta_j) - \vec{P}(\theta_i)\| \\
&= \|(R\cos\theta_j, R\sin\theta_j) - (R\cos\theta_i, R\sin\theta_i) \\
&= \|R(\cos\theta_j-\cos\theta_i, \sin\theta_j - \sin\theta_j)\|\\
&= R\|(\cos\theta_j-\cos\theta_i, \sin\theta_j - \sin\theta_j)\| \\
&= R \sqrt{
\cos^2\theta_j -2 \cos\theta_j\cos\theta_i + \cos^2\theta_i \\
+ \sin^2\theta_j -2 \sin\theta_j \sin\theta_i + \sin^2\theta_i
} \\
&= R\sqrt{
1-\sin^2\theta_j +1-\sin^2\theta_i + \sin^2\theta_j + \sin^2\theta_i \\
-2(\cos\theta_j\cos\theta_i+ \sin\theta_j \sin\theta_i)
}\\
&= R\sqrt{
2-2(\cos\theta_j \cos\theta_i + \sin\theta_j \sin\theta_i)
}\\
&=R\sqrt{2(1-\cos\theta_j \cos\theta_i - \sin\theta_j \sin\theta_i) } \\
& = R\sqrt{2(1-\cos(\theta_j + \theta_i))}\\
\therefore \vec{r} &= R\sqrt{2(1-\cos(\theta_j + \theta_i))}
\end{align}
$$

Where

$$
\theta_k = k\Delta \theta \\
\Delta\theta = \frac{2\pi}{N}
$$

We get

$$
\begin{aligned}
\vec{r} =R\sqrt{2}\sqrt{1-\cos\left((i+j)\frac{2\pi}{N}\right)}
\end{aligned}
$$

With this expression for ##\vec{r}##, we can write the net potential energy for particle ##j## along the circle with the equation assuming all particles have charges ##q##

$$
\begin{align}
U_\text{particle i} & = \sum_{j=1, i \ne j}^{N}
{
\frac{q^2}{4\pi\epsilon_0R\sqrt{2(1-\cos(\theta_i + \theta_j))}}}\\
& = \frac{q^2}{4\pi\epsilon_0R\sqrt{2}}\sum_{j=1, i \ne j}^{N}
{
\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\cos(\theta_i + \theta_j)}}} \\
& = \frac{q^2}{4\pi\epsilon_0R\sqrt{2}}\sum_{j=2}^{N}
{
\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\cos(\theta_i + \theta_j)}}}
\end{align}
$$

we set ##j_\text{initial} =2## which is equivalent to the conditions ##j=1, j\ne i##
For concision, let

$$
L = \frac{q^2}{4\pi\epsilon_0R}
$$

Then net potential energy can be expressed as

$$
\begin{align}
U(n)
& = \frac{1}{2}\sum_i^{n}U_i \\
& = \frac{L}{2} \sum_{i=1, j=2}^{n,n}
{
\frac{1}{\sqrt{2-2\cos(\Delta \theta(i+j-2))}}
} \\
&= \frac{nq^2}{8\pi\epsilon_0R}
\sum_{j=1}^{n-1}{
\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}\sqrt{1-\cos(j\Delta\theta))}}
}\\
&= \frac{nq^2}{8\pi\epsilon_0R}
\sum_{j=1}^{n-1}{
\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}\sqrt{1-\cos(j\frac{2\pi}{N}))}}
}\\
&= \frac{nq^2}{8\pi\epsilon_0R}
\sum_{j=1}^{n-1}{
\frac{1}{4\sin(\frac{j\pi}{N})}
}\\
&= \frac{nq^2}{32\pi\epsilon_0R}
\sum_{j=1}^{n-1}{
\csc\left(j\frac{\pi}{N}\right)
} \\
\end{align}
$$

For two configurations with ##N## charges we define the potential energies:

$$
U_1 = U(N) \\
U_2 = U(N-1) + (N-1)L
$$

where the second term in the definition of ##U_2## determines the potential for the lone particle in the center.

Now we solve for the ##N## at which ##U_1 = U_2##

$$
\begin{aligned}
U_1 - U_2& = \Delta U \\
&=N\frac{q^2}{32\pi\epsilon_0R}
\sum_{j=1}^{n-1}{
\csc\left(j\frac{\pi}{N}\right)
}\\
&+(1-N)\frac{q^2}{32\pi\epsilon_0R}
\sum_{j=1}^{n-2}{
\csc\left(j\frac{\pi}{N-1}\right)
}\\
& +(1-N)L
\end{aligned}

$$

Which is really difficult to solve directly.
 
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  • #2
theideasmith said:
Given two configurations, ##C_1##, ##C_2## of N point charges each, determine the smallest value of ##N## s.t. ##V_1>V_2##.
Are ##V_1## and ##V_2## the electrostatic potential energies associated with each distribution?
theideasmith said:
If we consider a gaussian surface inside the ring, ##E=0##
How do you figure? The electric flux out of the Gaussian surface is zero, but this doesn't mean that the electric field everywhere must be zero as a result. For example, what if the configuration has N = 2?
2charges.png
 
  • #3
theideasmith said:
Which is really difficult to solve directly.

After fixing up my algebra, I ended up with the equation

$$\begin{aligned}
U_2-U_1 &= 0 \\
&= L\frac{N-1}{2}\sum_{j=1}^{N-2}{\csc\left(\frac{j\pi}{N-1}\right)}
+ L(N-1)2
- L\frac{N}{2}\sum_{j=1}^{N-1}{\csc\left(\frac{j\pi}{N}\right)} \\
&= L\left(\frac{N-1}{2}\sum_{j=1}^{N-2}{\csc\left(\frac{j\pi}{N-1}\right)}
- \frac{N}{2}\sum_{j=1}^{N-1}{\csc\left(\frac{j\pi}{N}\right)}
+ 2(N-1)
\right)
\end{aligned}$$

and numerically solved for ##N## by plotting the series for ##U_1## and ##U_2##.
MDdbAwt.png

I got ##N=12##.

Lesson: Sometimes brute force is necessary.
Full solution: http://theideasmith.github.io/2017/02/14/Point-Charge-Configuration.html
 

What is potential energy?

Potential energy is the energy that an object possesses due to its position or configuration. It is stored energy that has the potential to do work.

How is potential energy related to charge configurations?

The potential energy of a charge configuration is determined by the electric potential energy of each individual charge and how they interact with each other. The configuration of the charges will affect the overall potential energy of the system.

What is the formula for calculating potential energy of two charge configurations?

The formula for calculating potential energy between two charges is: PE = k(q1q2)/r, where k is the Coulomb's constant, q1 and q2 are the magnitudes of the two charges, and r is the distance between the charges.

How does the distance between two charges affect their potential energy?

The potential energy between two charges is inversely proportional to the distance between them. This means that as the distance increases, the potential energy decreases and vice versa.

Can potential energy be negative?

Yes, potential energy can be negative. This occurs when the two charges have opposite signs, making the potential energy negative. It indicates that work must be done to bring the charges together and overcome the repulsive force between them.

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