Different interpretations? No, different theories

  • #101
Demystifier said:
No. In classical physics, it would mean that positions x correspond to positions of some physical objects. In quantum physics, it depends on the interpretation. In particular, in MWI it means that the physical object is not an abstract vector psi in the Hilbert space, but the wave function psi(x) in one particular basis x.

Let the physical object be an abstract vector psi in the Hilbert space. Choose a basis {|x>} via which you express your laws (interactions) in their well known form. I think this solves any ambiguities. No preferred basis in the sense that you define it.
Schmindt changes to another basis {|y>} which is not a Lorentz transform of the first {|x>}, hence he messes up the interactions. What does that prove?
Like in my example with earth+sun, when i move to center of mass R and relative position r, the transformation is not a Lorentz one, hence the R and r do not represent the position of the physical objects in space.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #102
JK423 said:
I am quite confused.. You are right, Gleason's theorem applies to all those situation that Born's rule is relevant. I need to understand the differences between Gleason's and Zurek's work, so i cannot say anything else at the moment. Does Gleason's theorem assumes Born's rule for example?
Gleason only assumes that we're dealing with a Hilbert space that's at least 3-dimensional.

From a physicist's point of view, the reason we want a theorem like Gleason's is that subspaces of the Hilbert space can be thought of as mathematical representations of yes-no experiments. For example, let a,b be real numbers such that b>a, and suppose that we design a device that measures an observable A and returns the value "yes", if the result of the A-measurement is in the interval [a,b] and "no" otherwise. The system's state vector after the measurement will be in the subspace spanned by eigenvectors of A with eigenvalues in [a,b]. There's always a subspace associated with each yes-no experiment, so we need to be able to assign them probabilities in a way that makes sense. For example, the probability associated with the trivial subspace {0} must be 0, and the probability associated with the entire Hilbert space must be 1. Further, if E and F are orthogonal subspaces, then the probability associated with the smallest subspace that contains E and F must be the sum of the probability associated with E and the probability associated with F.

These rules are similar to, but not identical to, the rules that define a probability measure. The main difference is that the domain of a probability measure, as defined in measure theory, is a σ-algebra, and the set of subspaces of a Hilbert space isn't. However, it is a lattice, and σ-algebras can be thought of as a special kind of lattice. So what we need is a generalization of the term "probability measure" to lattices.

The generalization is straightforward. It involves a version of the rules I described above. With this definition in place, we can state the problem accurately: Find all probability measures on the lattice of subspaces of a Hilbert space. This is the problem Gleason solved. His answer goes like this:

For each probability measure P on the lattice L of subspaces, there's a unique state operator S such that ##P(M)=Tr(P_M S)## for all M in L, where ##P_M## is the projection operator associated with the subspace M. The map ##P\mapsto S## is a bijection from the set of probability measures onto the set of state operators.

In my opinion, it's far more natural to define a "state" as a probability measure than as a state operator, so to me, this theorem is the justification for why state operators can be thought of as states.

Now consider the special case of a pure state ##S=|\psi\rangle\langle\psi|## and let M be the eigenspace associated with some eigenvalue a of a self-adjoint operator A with non-degenerate spectrum (i.e. a 1-dimensional eigenspace for each eigenvalue). Then the formula above reduces to
$$P\left(|a\rangle \langle a|\right) =\operatorname{Tr} |\psi\rangle \langle\psi|a\rangle\langle a| =\sum_{a'} \langle a'|\psi\rangle \langle|\psi|a\rangle \langle a|a'\rangle =\left|\langle a|\psi\rangle\right|^2.$$ This right-hand side is of course the probability that the Born rule assigns to the result a when we're measuring A.

One final comment, when I say "subspace" in this post, I always mean a closed linear subspace. (A Hilbert space can have subsets that are inner product spaces but not Hilbert spaces, but we're not interested in those. By requiring that the subset isn't just a vector space, but also a closed set with respect to the norm topology, we ensure that the subset is also a Hilbert space).
 
Last edited:
  • #103
JK423 said:
I am quite confused.. You are right, Gleason's theorem applies to all those situation that Born's rule is relevant. I need to understand the differences between Gleason's and Zurek's work, so i cannot say anything else at the moment. Does Gleason's theorem assumes Born's rule for example?

Gleason derives Born's rule with no assumption about it.

What it shows is given a resolution of the identity Ei, in a Hilbert space of dimension greater than 2, the only function f(Ei) 0<=f(Ei)<=1 such that f(Ei) sums to one is via the Born rule ie there exists a positive operator P of trace 1 such that f(Ei) = Tr(PEi).

You can find the details here:
http://kof.physto.se/theses/helena-master.pdf

The way probabilities enters into it is the interpretation of Ei as an observable whose outcome is one or zero so that the expected value of that observation is the probability of getting a one which is of course an f(Ei) so the theorem applies. Under this interpretation given any observable R = sum ri Ei, E(R) = sum ri Tr(PEi) = Tr(P sum ri Ei) = Tr (PR) and you have the Born rule.

If you have Balletines wonderful book on QM you see you have derived his second axiom from the first and the rest of QM follows from what he details in that book.

Note however there is no free lunch - there is an assumption being made in the proof - namely the f(Ei) does not depend on the elements of the resolution of the identity it is part of - this is called non contextuality. Mathematically it is a very clear assumption and necessary to make sense of the formalism. Physically however what it means is not quite so clear and you will find a fair amount of literature discussing it in particular the Kochen-Specker theorem - which follows fairly easily from Gleason - although the proof is usually presented in its own right.

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #104
Fredrik said:
In my opinion, it's far more natural to define a "state" as a probability measure than as a state operator, so to me, this theorem is the justification for why state operators can be thought of as states.

Definitely.

Thanks
Bill
 
  • #105
Fredrik, very nice analysis, thanks. Peres' book is very descriptive on this issue as well, bhobba also thank you for that diploma thesis!
I still don't understand though why all the fuss with deriving Born's rule non-circularly, and what's the point of Zurek's work.
 
Back
Top