Differentiability VS derivability

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of differentiability and derivability in the context of mathematical functions, particularly focusing on the distinctions and definitions in both English and French terminology. Participants explore the implications of these terms, their definitions, and the conditions under which they apply, including references to partial derivatives and continuity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the term "analytic" refers to a stronger condition than differentiability, which is defined by a specific criterion involving limits.
  • One participant mentions that their teacher indicated that "différentiabilité" is a stronger notion than "dérivabilité," suggesting a potential difference in interpretation between the terms.
  • Another participant proposes that being differentiable at a point is indeed stronger than merely having both partial derivatives exist at that point.
  • There is a claim that differentiability is logically equivalent to the existence and continuity of partial derivatives, although this is met with some uncertainty and correction from others.
  • A participant recalls that in older texts, "differentiable" might have been used to refer to the existence of partial derivatives, indicating a possible evolution in terminology.
  • It is noted that the existence of continuous partial derivatives is equivalent to Fréchet differentiability, but not the other way around.
  • One participant references a specific book by Dieudonné as a useful source for understanding these concepts and their nuances.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion features multiple competing views regarding the definitions and implications of differentiability and derivability, with no consensus reached on the terminology or the strength of the conditions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and relationships between differentiability, derivability, and the existence of partial derivatives, highlighting that terminology may vary among authors and texts.

quasar987
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differentiability VS "derivability"

In french, the quality of a function which in english is called 'differentiable', we call 'dérivable'. And we call 'différentiable' at the point (x,y) a function f such that we can write f(x+h,y+k) - f(x,y) = h*df(x,y)/dx + k*df(x,y)/dy + o(sqrt{h²+k²}).

What is this attribute called in english?
 
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Such a function is called "analytic."
 
No, that's just the criterion for the function to be differentiable at the point (x,y). Analytic is much stronger.
 
Hurkyl said:
No, that's just the criterion for the function to be differentiable at the point (x,y).

My teacher insisted that the notion of "différentiabilité" was stronger than that of "dérivabilité".
 
Being differentiable at (x,y) is stronger than having both of its partial derivatives existing at (x,y). Maybe this is to what your teacher is referring?

In English, a function is differentiable at x (=(x, y)) iff there exists a linear transformation T such that:

<br /> \lim_{\vec{v} \rightarrow 0} \frac{||f(\vec{x} + \vec{v}) - f(\vec{x}) - T\vec{v}||}{||\vec{v}||} = 0<br />

In the case at hand, T is just the gradient of f at x, so this works out to:

<br /> \lim_{(h,k) \rightarrow 0} \frac{|f(x+h, y+k) - f(x, y) - h \frac{\partial f}{\partial x}(x,y) - k \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}(x, y)|}{\sqrt{h^2 + k^2}} = 0<br />

which is equivalent to your expression.
 
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Well, my mistake. I was certain that in english, differentiable was a synomym of "both of its partial derivatives exist".
 
Ugh, it's been a while since I've considered these edge conditions, so I might have this wrong:

I think "f is differentiable" is logically equivalent to "f's partial derivatives exist, and are continuous", so you we're almost right. :smile:

(If it makes you feel better, it took me a little while before I could remember for sure that I had the definitions right!)
 
if both partials exist and are continuous, then the function is (frechet) differentiable, but not vice versa.

i seem to recall that in some old books the term "differentiable" was used to refer to existence of partials as opposed to frechet derivatives.

remember that every author sets his own terminology.


if one uses continuous derivtives then the existence of partials is equivalent to frechet derivatives,

i.e. to say the frechet derivatives exist and define continuois mapsinto the space of linear functions, is equivalent to saying the partials exist and are continuous.

as always, a very useful source for basic calculus including all these facts is the outstanding book of dieudonne, foundations of modern analysis.
 
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