Direction of Centrifugal Force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of centrifugal force as it applies to trains navigating curves, particularly in relation to super elevation. Participants explore how the direction and magnitude of centrifugal force may change with the application of super elevation while traveling at a constant speed along a curved path.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario with a train on a curve without super elevation, stating that centrifugal force acts horizontally along the x-axis through the center of gravity.
  • The same participant questions whether the direction of centrifugal force changes with the application of super elevation, or if it remains horizontal but with a lesser magnitude.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the term "super elevation," suggesting it refers to an incline.
  • A different participant explains that centripetal force acts perpendicular to the direction of motion and within the plane of the path.
  • A later reply discusses the concept of camber in U.S. roads and railroads, explaining that the goal is to align the direction of gravity with the incline to prevent skidding or tipping, referencing a force triangle for clarity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the behavior of centrifugal force in relation to super elevation, and no consensus has been reached on whether the direction of centrifugal force changes or remains horizontal.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying interpretations of centrifugal force and its relationship to super elevation, with some assumptions about the definitions and implications of these forces remaining unresolved.

tomtomtom123
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I am trying to understand how centrifugal force works when applied to a train.

For example, if I had a train that had zero super elevation, was traveling along a curve, of some radius at some speed then the centrifugal force acting on the train would be of a certain magnitude which would act in a horizontal straight line i.e. along the x-axis through the center of gravity.

Now, if that same train had super elevation applied to it with the same speed & curvature then the centrifugal force acting on the train would be less in magnitude but what I want to know is does the centrifugal force still act horizontally in a straight line (along the x axis) through the center of gravity but with a lesser magnitude or does the direction of centrifugal force change and become inclined due the application of super elevation?


Can anyone explain??

Thank you
 
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What is super elevation?
 
I'm guessing he means an incline.

The centripetal force always acts perpendicular to direction of motion and in the plane containing the path.
 
tomtomtom123 said:
I am trying to understand how centrifugal force works when applied to a train.

For example, if I had a train that had zero super elevation, was traveling along a curve, of some radius at some speed then the centrifugal force acting on the train would be of a certain magnitude which would act in a horizontal straight line i.e. along the x-axis through the center of gravity.

Now, if that same train had super elevation applied to it with the same speed & curvature then the centrifugal force acting on the train would be less in magnitude but what I want to know is does the centrifugal force still act horizontally in a straight line (along the x axis) through the center of gravity but with a lesser magnitude or does the direction of centrifugal force change and become inclined due the application of super elevation?


Can anyone explain??

Thank you

In the U.S., we speak of the camber of roads (including railroads). The idea is to get the direction of gravity as measured by a plumb bob in the car on on the train to hang straight down. This keeps the car from skidding and the train car from tipping. It's a simple force triangle (remember that vector's are added head to tail) with the desired incline of the road being perpendicular to the resultant vector. See attached.
 

Attachments

  • camber.jpg
    camber.jpg
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