Disrupting 20 lbs magnetic pull

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    Magnetic Pull
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the most energy-efficient methods to disrupt a magnetic pull of 20 lbs between two magnets, particularly focusing on the use of mu-metal and other mechanisms to separate them. Participants explore various approaches, including the application of kinetic energy, shearing forces, and the potential use of electromagnets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest using kinetic energy to quickly insert mu-metal between the magnets, while others propose a slower insertion method.
  • A participant describes a DIY project involving Nd magnets and emphasizes the need for minimal energy use to separate them.
  • One participant recommends applying a shearing force to separate bar magnets instead of pulling them directly apart.
  • Another participant proposes a mechanism where a shield is inserted to disrupt the magnetic pull as the magnet rises, followed by a drop once the shield is removed.
  • Concerns are raised about the feasibility of using a free energy device, with some participants arguing against its possibility due to energy losses like friction.
  • There are discussions about using a helper electromagnet to assist in managing the magnetic forces, although this approach is noted to require power to function.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the specifics of the setup, including the orientation of the magnets and the desired outcome regarding gravitational effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method to disrupt the magnetic pull, with multiple competing views and approaches presented throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions about the setup, including the orientation of the magnets and the specific application context, which remain unresolved. The discussion also touches on the limitations of free energy concepts and the challenges of energy efficiency in the proposed methods.

sc1guy
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What is the most energy efficient way to disrupt 20 lbs of magnetic pull? I'm trying to separate two magnets the most energy efficient way possible.

One idea I had was to use the velocity of kinetic energy to quickly insert mu-metal between two magnets. Or is it better to slowly insert mu-metal?
 
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sc1guy said:
What is the most energy efficient way to disrupt 20 lbs of magnetic pull? I'm trying to separate two magnets the most energy efficient way possible.

One idea I had was to use the velocity of kinetic energy to quickly insert mu-metal between two magnets. Or is it better to slowly insert mu-metal?

Welcome to the PF.

What is the context of the question? Is it for a school project? What magnets exactly are you using, or is the question more of a thought experiment?
 
I am a DIY. I am doing a project in my spare time for fun that involves magnets.
 
as berk said we need some idea of application, having played with Nd magnets for a while, i can certainly say that in the case of bar magnets that twisting them off each other is perhaps the easiest way, ie, don't try to pull them directly apart, apply a shearing force instead. its like trying to get out of an ocean current, the best way is to swim perpendicular to it.
 
I am using ND magnets and they are not touching. They are in a device that keeps them about half an inch apart. I want to put something between the magnets that will allow the gravitational force to push the magnet back down. I would like to do this with using the least amount of energy as possible as the first post stated.
 
hmm I am not too sure i am visualising what u r doing right. so u have 2 magnets, are they separated vertically or horizontally? and what do u mean when u say u want gravity to push the other magnet back down, back down from where? when did it move?
 
The magnets are separated vertically. When the magnetic force is disrupted the magnet on the bottom will fall naturally because of gravity. The top magnet is secured in place and does not move. When mu-metal is removed from between the magnets, the bottom magnets goes up vertically because of the magnetic force of the top magnetic.
 
hmm ok well i would have to say go for a slower shearing force
 
Last edited:
I need to put something between the two magnets to disrupt the magnetic field, not take a core out between the two magnets.
 
  • #10
Just a guess:

1) Magnet is attracted upwards to other magnet.
2) As it rises, a 'shield' is inserted (powered by it's motion) which cuts the upwards pull.
3) It drops, removing the shield, and allowing it to rise again.

All of this is connected to some sort of drive device which converts it to rotational motion and this drives some form of generator.

How far off am I?
 
  • #11
:approve: Sounds like a good idea.

Though, what I am looking at doing is creating a fail safe so that when two magnets get close together a sensor is in place to set off a mechanism that disrupts the field so that magnets will never touch.

Perpetual energy has proven to be non existent thus far. I like to keep my head out the clouds. Though, I do like your idea. What has been your experience with your stated hypothesis?
 
  • #12
i don't think jared was suggesting a free energy device, he was just describing the generator's operation. to expand on it u cud imagine perhaps a rotor with arms of this shield material rotating so that the shields are intermittently between the two magnets, creating a linear actuator type effect with the magnet that keeps falling.

also is there a reason why using an electromagnet would be out of the question? it may be more effecient to just pulse the electromagnet to pull up the permanent magnet a bit after which it will just fall
 
  • #13
sc1guy said:
:approve: Sounds like a good idea.

Though, what I am looking at doing is creating a fail safe so that when two magnets get close together a sensor is in place to set off a mechanism that disrupts the field so that magnets will never touch.

Perpetual energy has proven to be non existent thus far. I like to keep my head out the clouds. Though, I do like your idea. What has been your experience with your stated hypothesis?

It's a terrible idea. It is a PMM and the way the details here were a bit sketchy it's the way I thought you were going. Glad you're not.

You'd be better off using electromagnets and just cutting the current when 'danger appears'.
trini said:
i don't think jared was suggesting a free energy device

Actually, that's exactly what I was thinking of. Trying to nip that in the bud before too much thread space was used.
also is there a reason why using an electromagnet would be out of the question? it may be more effecient to just pulse the electromagnet to pull up the permanent magnet a bit after which it will just fall

Ah, I see we're on the same track. Good stuff.
 
  • #14
just a side not from the original topic and then I will jump back in line.

Could a free energy device be made in such a way?

And if not where is the energy be wasted?
 
  • #15
sc1guy said:
just a side not from the original topic and then I will jump back in line.

Could a free energy device be made in such a way?

And if not where is the energy be wasted?

No it couldn't.

Friction losses to put it simply. Always less out than you put in.

As a note, banned topic here.
 
  • #16
i would mention someone named searl here but i don't want to be crucified ;)
 
  • #17
hmm... interesting.. is there a youtube link of such a failed device.

What my aim is to do is make sure that the magnets never touch. I want to use nd magnets and the mechanism that stops the two magnets from touching will be powered by an alternative energy source.
 
  • #18
trini said:
i would mention someone named searl here but i don't want to be crucified ;)

Mention away, but it's banned here for a reason (hint: it doesn't work).
 
  • #19
A possible approach would be to use a 'helper' electromagnet to one or the other of the permanent magnets. However, this 'helper' magnet would have the opposite polarity as the magnet to which its attached. When the magnets get close the helper is turned on and cancels or reduces the field allowing the magnets to fall.

This approach isn't a good fail safe as power is required to stop the action. Having somewhat less powerful magnets and the helper supplying the needed additional strength to get them to come together, then killing power would let them drop.
 
  • #20
Thread closed for Moderation and some deletions. We will try to get to it by tomorrow.
 

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