Distance between two events w.r.t. two frames

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the distance between two events as observed from different frames of reference, specifically an Earth frame and a train frame. The problem involves concepts of relative motion, non-inertial frames, and how acceleration is perceived differently in these frames.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of observing acceleration from a non-inertial frame, questioning how an observer on an accelerating train perceives their own motion. There is discussion about the definitions of inertial and non-inertial frames and how these affect measurements of acceleration.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants questioning the nature of acceleration in non-inertial frames and how to reconcile different observations. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of accelerometers and the definitions of frames, but no consensus has been reached on the implications of these observations.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the definitions of inertial versus non-inertial frames and the implications of these definitions on measurements of acceleration. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in understanding these concepts in the context of the problem.

Pushoam
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Distance between events w.r.t. Earth frame,

De = | (1/2)w(t+Γ)2 - 350 - (1/2)wt2 | = 242 m

Distance between events w.r.t. train frame,
Dt =350 m , correct?
As w.r.t. train frame , the train is not moving.

But, a person on the train will observe that the train is accelerating.
But , if the train is not moving, then how will this person observe that the train is accelerating. Here , I am doing some mistake. Please help me.W.r.t. Earth's frame, the two events occur at (x1,t1) and (x2,t2)
such that x1 - x2= 242 m
and t2 - t1 = 60 s

At t = 0 s, origin of both K's and Earth's frames meet each other.
W.r.t. K's frame, the two events occur at (x'1,t1) and (x'2,t2)
such that x'1 - x'2= 0 m
and t2 - t1 = 60 s
x'1 - x'2= 0 m = x1 - Vt1 - x2 + Vt2

x1 - x2 = - V( t2 - t1 )

V = 242/60 = 4.0 m/s
 
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Pushoam said:
But, a person on the train will observe that the train is accelerating.
No it will not. The train frame is a non-inertial frame.
 
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Orodruin said:
No it will not. The train frame is a non-inertial frame.

How can I,too, reach to this conclusion?
If a person sitting in an accelerating train wants to measure the acceleration of the train, won't he measure the acceleration to be nonzero?
 
Orodruin said:
No it will not. The train frame is a non-inertial frame.

How can I,too, reach to this conclusion?
If a person sitting in an accelerating train wants to measure the acceleration of the train, won't he measure the acceleration to be nonzero?
 
Pushoam said:
How can I,too, reach to this conclusion?
If a person sitting in an accelerating train wants to measure the acceleration of the train, won't he measure the acceleration to be nonzero?
This depends on what you mean by "measuring the acceleration". An accelerometer will give you a non-zero value, but it will read the same in all frames. By definition of the train frame, the train is stationary in that frame and therefore not accelerating.
 
Orodruin said:
An accelerometer will give you a non-zero value, but it will read the same in all frames.
Does "all" imply both inertial and non-inertial frames?
Orodruin said:
By definition of the train frame, the train is stationary in that frame and therefore not accelerating.
So, we reach to that conclusion by definition.
 

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