Divergence of velocity of incompressible fluid in uniform gravity

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the divergence of the velocity field in an incompressible fluid subjected to uniform gravity, particularly in scenarios such as a waterfall. Participants explore the implications of fluid dynamics principles, continuity, and the behavior of fluid streams under acceleration.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation of the velocity field and questions the assumption that the divergence of velocity should be zero in an incompressible fluid.
  • Another participant argues that the assumptions of ideal flow may not hold, suggesting that continuity and non-divergence cannot coexist without additional mechanisms to maintain flow integrity.
  • A third participant relates the thinning of fluid sheets to practical applications in polymer processing, indicating that as the velocity increases, the streamlines converge, leading to a component of velocity in the thickness direction.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding whether similar thinning occurs in inviscid fluids like superfluid helium.
  • Another participant asserts that even superfluid helium has viscosity and emphasizes the need for a stability analysis to understand conditions under which fluid sheets may break up.
  • It is noted that the continuity equation for incompressible flow is fundamentally about mass conservation and does not rely on viscosity, with examples provided of inviscid flows that involve deformation.
  • Surface tension is mentioned as a significant factor in determining whether a thinning stream remains cohesive or breaks into droplets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of fluid continuity and the behavior of velocity fields in incompressible fluids. There is no consensus on the conditions under which the divergence of velocity should be considered, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the assumptions regarding fluid behavior under acceleration, the role of viscosity, and the effects of surface tension, which are not fully resolved within the conversation.

TitusLucretius
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hi!

The velocity field as a function of poisition of an incompressible fluid in a uniform acceleration field, such as a waterfall accelerated by gravity can be found as follows:
The position is \vec{x}.
The velocity field is \vec{v} = \frac{d\vec{x}}{dt}.
The constant acceleration field is \vec{a}=\frac{d\vec{v}}{dt} =\frac{d\vec{v}}{dt}\frac{d\vec{x}}{d\vec{x}}= \frac{d\vec{v}}{d\vec{x}}\frac{d\vec{x}}{dt} = \frac{d\vec{v}}{d\vec{x}}\vec{v}.
Now we can find the velocity as a function of position by rearranging the above and integrating:
\int\vec{a}\cdot d\vec{x} = \int\vec{v}\cdot d\vec{v}

\vec{a}\cdot \vec{x} = \frac{\vec{v}^2}{2}

\vec{v} = (2\vec{a}\vec{x})^{\frac{1}{2}}

The divergence of the velocity field is then

\vec\nabla\cdot\vec{v} = \vec\nabla\cdot(2\vec{a}\vec{x})^{\frac{1}{2}} = (2\vec{a})^{\frac{1}{2}}\vec\nabla\cdot \frac{\vec{x}^{-\frac{1}{2}}}{2} =\sqrt{\frac{\vec{a}}{2\vec{x}}}

But shouldn't \vec\nabla\cdot\vec{v} = 0 in an incompressible fluid? The stramlines are all parallel to one another, as they follow the gravitational field, so they shouldn't diverge.

Where has my thinking gone wrong?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You can't take the assumptions behind the ideal flow too literally.

You're assuming that that the field has continuity (it's "full of water") and also that it's non divergent. You're also assuming the acceleration due to, e.g., gravity is the only acceleration.

Eventually you will have to pick. Either the water has to move together horizontally to maintain continuity by some unspecified mechanism (such as self-attraction, which would cause an acceleration), so that the stream gets narrower but faster as it falls, or else you have to give up continuity and allow the stream to break up into pieces or droplets with spaces in between.
 
olivermsun alluded to the answer to your question. As the water falls and the x-velocity increases with x, the streamlines get closer together, and the sheet of water gets thinner. There will be a component of velocity in the thickness direction. Check out the "curtain coating" literature.

In the process of casting polymer sheets and in man-made fiber spinning operations, we encounter this type of deformation routinely. As the parcels of polymer stretch axially, they get thinner in the direction normal to the axis. For example, in fiber spinning, you also have an inward radial component of velocity as the polymer stretches axially, in order to satisfy continuity.
 
Thank you for your answers, everybody!

olivermsun, Chestermiller, would the thinning of the sheet also occur for an inviscid fluid, such as superfluid liquid helium?
 
Even superfluid liquid helium has viscosity, so yes it would happen. But you would also have to do a hydrodynamic stability analysis on the curtain of fluid (including surface tension effects, of course) to determine under what conditions the sheet breaks up. In curtain coating operations, surfactants are added to the fluid to inhibit breakup.

chet
 
TitusLucretius,

For an incompressible flow, the continuity equation is just a statement of mass conservation. It doesn't really depend on there being viscosity (or not).

There are lots of other examples of "inviscid" flows that depend on deforming and stretching. For example, you can think of surface water waves as being a result of the local thinning/thickening of a sheet of water as it flows horizontally away/toward any given point.

As Chestermiller points out, surface tension will become important once you care about the details of whether the stream stays together as it thins or whether it breaks up into smaller droplets (thereby breaking continuity).
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
743
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K