Divergence Theorem: Gauss & Cross-Product Integration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the divergence theorem, specifically in relation to the cross-product integration of vector fields. Participants explore the mathematical expressions involving the divergence and curl of vector fields, particularly in the context of fluid dynamics and electromagnetism. The focus includes proving relationships and deriving formulas related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references the divergence theorem, questioning the integral of the curl of a vector field and suggesting a result involving a cross product on the surface integral.
  • Another participant mentions using a textbook reference to derive Archimedes' principle, relating pressure gradients in fluids to gravitational forces, and notes a negative sign when considering the cross product.
  • A participant expresses a desire to prove the formula for the integral of the curl by hand, indicating uncertainty about how to start the proof.
  • One participant introduces a constant vector field and relates it to the integral of the curl, suggesting a connection to the divergence of the cross product.
  • Another participant elaborates on the rearrangement of terms in the context of the divergence theorem, leading to a relationship between the curl and the surface integral involving a constant vector.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the proof of the formula involving the curl and cross product. There are multiple approaches and interpretations presented, indicating ongoing exploration and debate regarding the mathematical relationships involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with the application of these mathematical concepts, and there are references to specific conditions and assumptions related to vector fields and integrals. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions necessary for the proofs being sought.

Apashanka
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From gauss divergence theorem it is known that ##\int_v(\nabla • u)dv=\int_s(u•ds)## but what will be then ##\int_v(\nabla ×u)dv##
Any hint??
The result is given as ##\int_s (ds×u)##
 
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I had to look this one up in the appendix of an E&M (electricity and magnetism) textbook. I have never used it in any application.
With ## \int \nabla p \, dv =\int p \, \hat{n} ds ##, where the force per unit volume in a fluid is ## f_v=-\nabla p ## and must balance the force of gravity per unit volume ## f_g=-\rho g \hat{z} ##, I have done another proof of Archimedes principle.
Yes, you have it correct, and if you take ## u \times ds ##, it gets a minus sign.
 
Charles Link said:
I had to look this one up in the appendix of an E&M (electricity and magnetism) textbook. I have never used it in any application.
With ## \int \nabla p \, dv =\int p \, \hat{n} ds ##, where the force per unit volume in a fluid is ## f_v=-\nabla p ## and must balance the force of gravity per unit volume ## f_g=-\rho g \hat{z} ##, I have done another proof of Archimedes principle.
Yes, you have it correct, and if you take ## u \times ds ##, it gets a minus sign.
Sir actually I came across this formula ##\int_v(\nabla×u)dv=\int_s(ds×u) ##,but sir I want to just prove this formula once by hand ,but didn't get any idea or hint of how to start with... that's why sir I am asking this...
 
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Let \mathbf{c} be an arbitrary constant vector field and consider <br /> \mathbf{c} \cdot \int_V \nabla \times \mathbf{u}\,dV = \int_V \mathbf{c} \cdot (\nabla \times \mathbf{u})\,dV<br /> = \int_V \nabla \cdot (\mathbf{u} \times \mathbf{c})\,dV.
 
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Ok sir then ##\int_v\nabla•(u×c)dv=\int_s(u×c)•ds=\int_s(u_jc_k-u_kc_j)ds_i+(u_kc_i-u_ic_k)ds_j+(u_ic_j-u_jc_i)ds_k##rearranging terms having ##c_i,c_j## and ##c_k## coefficients it becomes ##-\int_s(u×ds)•c## and for c being a constt vector Rhs becomes ##\int_v(c•(\nabla×u))##
Thanks @pasmith and @Charles Link
 
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