Do All EM Waves Have a Sinusoidal Shape?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of electromagnetic (EM) waves, specifically whether all EM waves must have a sinusoidal shape. Participants explore the implications of different types of motion of charged particles, the relationship between sinusoidal waves and monochromaticity, and the conditions under which various waveforms can exist.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that sinusoidal EM waves arise from charged particles in harmonic motion, questioning what happens with more complex periodic motions.
  • Others argue that non-sinusoidal waveforms can be expressed as combinations of sinusoidal waves through Fourier transformation, leading to the concept of polychromatic waves.
  • A participant mentions that accelerating positive charges can radiate EM waves, but notes that textbooks often focus on electrons due to their prevalence in metals.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of wave shapes, with some asserting that pure sinusoidal waves do not exist in nature and require infinite energy, while others emphasize that various functions can represent spatial components of waves.
  • One participant highlights that if only pure sinusoids were allowed, practical applications like radio would not function.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that the temporal part of a wave is typically sinusoidal, while the spatial part can take on various forms, including Bessel functions and Gaussian functions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of sinusoidal shapes for EM waves, with some asserting that non-sinusoidal forms are possible and others emphasizing the predominance of sinusoidal waves in theoretical discussions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the discussion, such as the dependence on definitions of waveforms and the unresolved nature of certain mathematical interpretations regarding the radiation of non-sinusoidal waves.

rmberwin
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
I understand that sinusoidal EM waves result from charged particles in harmonic motion, e.g., up and down an antenna. But what if the charge is undergoing some more complicated periodic motion? Wouldn't the EM waves be non-sinusoidal? I saw in a textbook a hypothetical EM wave with infinite wave length, i.e., the E and B fields were constant.

Also, why don't accelerating positive charges produce EM waves?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
To the best of my knowledge, sinusoid is closely related to monochromaticity. EM wave whose temporal profile is perfectly sinusoidal is said to be monochromatic, i.e. contain only a single frequency,. If not sinusoidal, relying on the Fourier transformation, such temporal profile may be expanded into continuous linear combination of infinitely many sinusoidal waves of varying frequencies, in that case we say the wave to be polychromatic.
rmberwin said:
Also, why don't accelerating positive charges produce EM waves?
Why not?
 
blue_leaf77 said:
To the best of my knowledge, sinusoid is closely related to monochromaticity. EM wave whose temporal profile is perfectly sinusoidal is said to be monochromatic, i.e. contain only a single frequency,. If not sinusoidal, relying on the Fourier transformation, such temporal profile may be expanded into continuous linear combination of infinitely many sinusoidal waves of varying frequencies, in that case we say the wave to be polychromatic.
Right. Every shape is possible, but sinusoidal waves are the easiest case so you frequently see them discussed in textbooks.
 
Also, you can construct any other shape of wave by adding sinusoids together (Fourier analysis).
 
So accelerating positive charges produce EM waves? Textbooks I've read mention only electrons.
 
Yes. They only mention electrons because they are available in metals.
 
Note that if only pure sinosoids were allowed, radio would not work.
 
rmberwin said:
I understand that sinusoidal EM waves result from charged particles in harmonic motion, e.g., up and down an antenna. But what if the charge is undergoing some more complicated periodic motion? Wouldn't the EM waves be non-sinusoidal? I saw in a textbook a hypothetical EM wave with infinite wave length, i.e., the E and B fields were constant.

Also, why don't accelerating positive charges produce EM waves?
Any charged particle which is given an acceleration can radiate, but they are mostly heavy so it does not work very well. (Electromagnetic Vibrations and Waves by Bekerfi and Barrett, page 265 discusses proton radiation). If the wave is non sinusoidal, the various harmonics of which it is composed could, in principle, be radiated, preserving the wave shape. It is usually said that a zero frequency signal cannot radiate, so I am interested that you have seen a reference. Usually we say that if a wave shape has a DC component then this cannot be radiated. It is like placing a capacitor in the circuit. (As a boy, when FM broadcasting started, I remember being bothered that a frequency modulated signal was non sinusoidal and could not therefore be radiated!)
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Note that if only pure sinosoids were allowed, radio would not work.
Not only that! There are no purely sinusoidal (monochromatic) waves in nature, because you'd need an infinite amount of energy to produce them. They are formal solutions of the Maxwell equations used to build up the physical waves of finite energy content ("wave packets") by Fourier series and Fourier integrals. I'd rather call them "field modes" then "electromagnetic waves" to make this very clear. The notion "electromagnetic wave" I'd reserve for electromagnetic wave fields that really exist in nature.
 
  • #10
rmberwin said:
I understand that sinusoidal EM waves result from charged particles in harmonic motion, e.g., up and down an antenna. But what if the charge is undergoing some more complicated periodic motion? Wouldn't the EM waves be non-sinusoidal? I saw in a textbook a hypothetical EM wave with infinite wave length, i.e., the E and B fields were constant.

Also, why don't accelerating positive charges produce EM waves?

There are two independent interpretations of "sinusoidal EM waves": one is spatial [for example, sin(kz)], and the other temporal [for example, sin(ωt)]. AFAIK, the temporal part is always sinusoid (standard disclaimer of monochromatic applies), but the spatial part does not have to be sinusoidal and can be a wide variety of other functions: Bessel functions, Gaussian functions, decaying exponential, etc. etc.
 
  • #11
Temporal part has no more need to be sinusoidal than the spatial part.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K