Do antireflective coats increase the angle of total internal reflectio

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of antireflective (AR) coatings on total internal reflection in optical systems, particularly in the context of designing eyepieces. Participants explore how different refractive indices and layer thicknesses might influence the angles of incidence and reflection, as well as the potential for using nanoparticles in coatings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that adding a 1/4 wavelength layer of MgF on a prism could allow for higher angles of total internal reflection due to its intermediate refractive index.
  • Another participant questions whether the introduction of an intermediate layer would actually reduce the angle of total internal reflection, suggesting that the difference in refractive indices is crucial.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the thickness required for the intermediate layer to effectively influence light behavior at non-normal angles.
  • Concerns are raised about the increased curvature needed for fewer lenses, which may lead to higher aberrations that are harder to correct.
  • A mathematical relationship is presented regarding the angles and refractive indices, indicating that total internal reflection cannot be avoided at certain conditions.
  • One participant shares findings from reflection graphs that suggest lowering the refractive index only slightly affects reflection angles, raising questions about achieving desired field of view.
  • Another participant suggests that using specially shaped materials instead of thin AR coatings could modify the effective critical angle for total internal reflection.
  • A discussion about the geometry of surfaces indicates that modifying the back surface of lenses could improve transmission and reduce reflections.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether AR coatings can effectively change the maximum allowed angle for total internal reflection. Some believe that the coatings will have minimal impact, while others suggest potential benefits from specific configurations or materials. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are uncertainties regarding the thickness of the AR coatings and their effectiveness at various angles of incidence. The discussion also highlights dependencies on specific geometries and refractive indices, which may not be fully addressed.

Stargazer19385
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And I mean the angle with the normal vector.

Suppose you shine a laser through a prism at a large angle of incidence, and the prism has index of refraction 1.7. You get the angle of incidence high enough, and you get total internal reflection. Then you put a 1/4 wavelength layer of MgF, index 1.38 on the face of the prism where the total internal reflection is occurring. Would the prism the let some light through, and then have the same total internal reflection angle that a pure MgF prism would have, allowing a higher angle with the normal?

I'm designing an eyepiece and trying to figure out just how much bending I can get away with. What if some nanoparticles are added on top of the MgF, giving a second layer of index 1.18? Would that allow significantly higher angles? Would the nano particles likely be uneven and cause scattering? Nikon claims to have that technology.
 
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I'm no expert, but doesn't total internal reflection depend on the difference between the to mediums' refractive indices? I would expect that adding a layer of something with a refractive index in between that of the two mediums would give you less of an angle. But I could be mistaken.
 
That intermediate index is what I was basing my hope on. I just did not know if there was a certain thickness required in wavelengths for the light to register the intermediate layer. The layer is thick enough to reduce reflections from both sides of a piece of glass at zero incident angle, but I don't know how much it helps at non-normal angles. Wide angle eyepieces usually use 3 lenses to bend the light sufficiently, possibly for the purpose of avoiding high incidence angles, or possibly just to avoid manufacturing a highly curved lens. I wanted to do it in two lenses to reduce the total number of reflections.
 
Oh, I see what you're wanting to do.
Honestly, I'm not sure. Just going off the basics of what I know, it seems like it would work, however it could be that I have no idea what I'm talking about and that it's much more complicated than I think.

I can say that reducing the number of lenses will require that the remaining two have increased curvature, which means that aberrations will be higher and harder to correct.
 
The product of the refractive index and the sine of the angle with the normal is the same in every medium:

Nisinαi=No sin(αo), where No and αo refer to air.

Let the angle in the prism be greater than the critical angle N2sinα2>1 (sinα2>0.588, α2>36°.
With a layer on the prism, the sine of the angle of the light inside the layer is sinα1= N2sin(α2)/N1, sinα1=1.7/1.38sin(α2) for the MgF2 film. If 0.588<sin(α2) <0.81, (36°<α2<54°) the light enters into the layer and reaches the layer-air interface, but will be totally reflected there, as

N1sinα1=N1(N2sin(α2)/N1) = N2sin(α2) >1. You can not avoid totalreflection at the end.

ehild
 
http://refractiveindex.info/?group=PLASTICS&material=PMMA

I looked at the reflection graphs for different materials, including MgF, and found that as the index of refraction goes down, the angle with 5% reflection goes up a bit, but not as much as I would expect. Lowering the index of refraction just seems to shave 2% or so off across most angles. If 6% is acceptable, I might be able to get the 90 degree apparent FOV I want. The nice thing is the reflection will be angled up at the walls instead of the other lenses. I would just need to make sure that light is absorbed. Maybe put some MgF nano particles on the black walls with baffles too.
 
ehild said:
You can not avoid totalreflection at the end.

You cannot avoid it if you insist on parallel surfaces. One solution to modify the effective critical angle lies in putting some thicker specially shaped second material instead of a thin ar-coating layer on the prism.

I have seen people putting hemispheres directly on a sample inside a cryostat to modify the effective limiting angle of total internal reflection. You cannot change the limiting angle between the beam and the normal at the hemisphere-air interface, but by using a hemisphere you can make sure that there is no angle between the beam and the surface normal.
 
By parallel surface, I think you mean plano surface, such as the plano back side of an convex plano lens where the bent rays hit it at a non zero angle on the way out, which is more angle sensitive than the way in. Carving the back side to be spherical concave, with a radius of curvature such that all the out going rays are normal to the surface, not only increases transmission and reduces reflections, but also reduces chromatic aberration.

I still have to get by the high angle of the low f# lens's convex surface. The consensus seems to be that a thin AR coating will not change the maximum allowed angle, or not by much.
 

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