Do electrons flow in one direction in magnets?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of magnetism, particularly whether electrons flow in one direction in magnets and how this relates to the magnetic properties of materials. Participants explore concepts related to magnetic fields, electron behavior, and the distinction between magnetic and non-magnetic materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electrons do not continuously flow from the north to south pole in magnets, suggesting that the magnetic properties arise from the alignment of magnetic moments rather than a net electron flow.
  • Others explain that normal magnets generate magnetic fields through the angular momentum and intrinsic spin of electrons, with the alignment of atomic magnetic moments being crucial for magnetism.
  • A participant mentions that in electromagnets, the flow of electrons (current) is indeed the cause of the magnetic field, contrasting this with permanent magnets.
  • There are claims that a magnetic current flow exists in magnets, implying that the ability to change magnetic poles indicates a dynamic aspect of magnetism.
  • One participant questions why not all metals can be magnetized if magnetism is due to a substance flowing in the metal, indicating a need for further clarification on the conditions for magnetism.
  • Another participant provides a detailed explanation of how electron arrangements can lead to cancellation of magnetic moments in non-magnetic materials, and how alignment can occur under certain conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of electron flow in magnets and the mechanisms behind magnetism. There is no consensus on whether electrons flow in a specific direction or how this relates to the magnetic properties of materials.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions regarding electron behavior, the role of temperature in magnetism, and the structural characteristics of materials that influence their magnetic properties. These aspects remain unresolved in the discussion.

Kannonball
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Do electrons continuously flow from north to south pole in magnets. If yes, does this continue to happen when the magnet is attracted or repelled by another magnet or to a ferrite?
 
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A normal magnet like the ones you would stick on a refrigerator do not depend on electric currents to generate their magnetic fields. Instead they use the angular momentum of electrons in their orbitals AND the intrinsic spin of the electrons to generate it. In a non magnetic material the magnetic fields of each atom do not line up with each other, resulting in each field being canceled out by other fields. In a magnet the atoms are aligned so that most of the north poles point one way and most of the soulth poles point the other, each field adding with the other to produce a large noticeable effect.
 
You are exactly right OP, the flow of the north and south pole magnets causes the magnetic domains to align themselves. The magnet is not the metal itself, it is the substance circulating in the metal.
 
drmagtri said:
You are exactly right OP, the flow of the north and south pole magnets causes the magnetic domains to align themselves. The magnet is not the metal itself, it is the substance circulating in the metal.

He is not asking about the north and south pole of the magnetic field, he is asking about the flow of electrons causing the field. Which is incorrect, as there is no net direction of electron flow.

The magnet is not the metal itself, it is the substance circulating in the metal.

Again, incorrect. The electons in the atoms and molecules that make up the magnet are what cause the magnetic fields.

However, in an Electromagnet, which is a wire coiled into mulitple loops, the flow of electrons (current) IS the cause of the magnetic field.
 
In any magnet there is indeed a magnetic current flow. If it were the metal itself then we would not be able to change the poles or make the material not a magnet anymore.
 
drmagtri said:
In any magnet there is indeed a magnetic current flow. If it were the metal itself then we would not be able to change the poles or make the material not a magnet anymore.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetism

Particularly this part of it:

Ordinarily, the enormous number of electrons in a material are arranged such that their magnetic moments (both orbital and intrinsic) cancel out. This is due, to some extent, to electrons combining into pairs with opposite intrinsic magnetic moments as a result of the Pauli exclusion principle (see electron configuration), or combining into filled subshells with zero net orbital motion. In both cases, the electron arrangement is so as to exactly cancel the magnetic moments from each electron. Moreover, even when the electron configuration is such that there are unpaired electrons and/or non-filled subshells, it is often the case that the various electrons in the solid will contribute magnetic moments that point in different, random directions, so that the material will not be magnetic.

However, sometimes — either spontaneously, or owing to an applied external magnetic field — each of the electron magnetic moments will be, on average, lined up. Then the material can produce a net total magnetic field, which can potentially be quite strong.

The magnetic behavior of a material depends on its structure, particularly its electron configuration, for the reasons mentioned above, and also on the temperature. At high temperatures, random thermal motion makes it more difficult for the electrons to maintain alignment.
 
If magnetism is caused by a substance flowing in a metal, why aren't all metals capable of being magnetized?

In a related note, do you know where I can get some phlogiston cheap?
 
Your comments are appreciated and understood
 

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