Do Physicists Drink? - Debating the Risks of Alcohol

[Apexny]

This is a problem that I have pondered over, and argued about, for years.

Einstein of course did not drink. I have read often that he did not drink. I have heard that even during his days at the Zurich Polytechnic, he would talk to his fellow students at a bar, but never actually drink. There are a few accounts of him being drunk, for example at a party with Mileva, he wrote to Conrad Habicht of being very drunk. Still though, other than those exceptions, he chose not to drink, believing that alcohol spoiled the mind.

I remember reading Richard Feynman's book, "Classic Feynman," (what an amazing book by the way) where he said that during a trip to South America, he was walking along the boardwalk and saw a bar. He had a sudden strong inclination to go in and have a drink, even though it was still very early in the day. He began to enter, but realized that he was experiencing the first symptoms of alcoholism. Being that Feynman did not want to do anything that damaged his brain, he decided to quit alcohol altogether.

Still though, I remember reading an essay by Carl Sagan about his experimenting with marijuana. He seemed to like the drug, and admitted that he advocated its use, although this isn't to say exactly that he drank alcohol, because even Feynman wrote of smoking marijuana and experimenting with LSD.

Then I remember listening to an interview of Michio Kaku on the Opie and Anthony show, and Kaku was asked how physicists celebrate new discoveries. Do they drink? Kaku answered simply by saying that Physicists do no drink, and celebrate in different ways.

Anywho, all of this leads me to believe that there are two sides to the matter of drinking alcohol. Either people drink alcohol and do not care of the damage it causes to their brain, or people do not drink in fear of that damage being caused. The general consensus seems to be that certain occupations that rely on their brains are weary of alcohol.

What about you guys? Do you drink? Are you afraid of the risks? Sorry if this entire topic is too silly for some of you, as I was a bit doubtful about posting it myself.

 

[Oddbio]

I am almost 21 (will be at the end of this month), and to be honest I'm not looking forward to not having that excuse any more. I could always just say I'm not 21.
Even if I go to a party, I don't drink, and I don't want to.

It probably does have something to do with me wanting to keep my brain as healthy as I can... but also, I just really truly don't see what the point is to drinking.
I can't ask anyone because it would sound lame, so maybe someone here could help me out even. Beer/wine/champagne do not taste good to me at all, do they taste good to other people, am I just weird?
Or is the only reason that anyone else drinks for purely social reasons, at least at first until they develop a liking for alcohol?

 

[cronxeh]

Any person who truly loves life and the universe will enjoy a few drinks. Otherwise you are not a true physicist. You are a pathetic nerd! I just had a few and all the physics is really starting to shine and I appreciate life that much more.

 

[Pythagorean]

some do, some don't.

I think brain damage is a result of abuse, not use.

 

[xxChrisxx]

What an odd question.

Physicists aren't some odd species that are separate from humans. We ar eall human, therefore some will drink and others won't.

Do Physicists X? Is a question I see often on these forums. I just find it really really odd, you can't lump people together like that.

It's also a very American thing that people are paranoid of the dangers of alcohol. What is it about the culture over there that drinking is seen as something to be shocked about? The concpet of 'another round' shocked the hell out of a bunch of US students who were on exchange when I was at university.

As an asside alcohol is acutally good for you when taken in moderation. If you get hammered constantly you'll pickle your brain.And Oddbio, don't lie or make excuses to not drink. Just state that you really don't enjoy it, that should all people need to know. Theres nothing wrong with not liking alcohol.

 

[rootX]

Do Physicists drink?

I am not a physics so I don't anything.. neither this global invasive species database
http://www.issg.org/database/specie...e1.y=0&sn=Physicists&rn=&hci=-1&ei=-1&lang=EN

 

[rootX]

What an odd question.

Physicists aren't some odd species that are separate from humans. We ar eall human, therefore some will drink and others won't.

...

You beat me while I was searching physicists for like 10 minutes :)

 

[erok81]

some do, some don't.

I think brain damage is a result of abuse, not use.

This is my school of thought as well.

My mom made me watch some documentary on how alcohol destroys the brain a long time ago. So the thought always lingers.

Thankfully I love cheap beer and being in Utah it's a low percent so hopefully I don't lose too many brain cells. It's always on the back of mind though.

 

[Moonbear]

What an odd question.

Physicists aren't some odd species that are separate from humans.

Well, of course you're all some odd species.

I'm puzzled by what the OP wrote. Einstein didn't drink, but he was seen drunk? Um...I think there's a problem with that logic.

 

[cronxeh]

Well, of course you're all some odd species.

I'm puzzled by what the OP wrote. Einstein didn't drink, but he was seen drunk? Um...I think there's a problem with that logic.

Seems pretty straight forward. He was bipolar. One side was patent office working cousin-dating side, the other was a fun theoretical physicist who enjoyed drinking and debauchery.

 

[xxChrisxx]

This is my school of thought as well.

My mom made me watch some documentary on how alcohol destroys the brain a long time ago. So the thought always lingers.

Thankfully I love cheap beer and being in Utah it's a low percent so hopefully I don't lose too many brain cells. It's always on the back of mind though.

Never think about that, don't really care if it takes x amount of brain cells.

Life is for living. Do I really care if I've got 10% less brain calls at the time of retirement...? not really no. The way people talk about it, you'd think it was like getting a lobotomy.

 

[diazona]

I am almost 21 (will be at the end of this month), and to be honest I'm not looking forward to not having that excuse any more. I could always just say I'm not 21.
Even if I go to a party, I don't drink, and I don't want to.

It probably does have something to do with me wanting to keep my brain as healthy as I can... but also, I just really truly don't see what the point is to drinking.
I can't ask anyone because it would sound lame, so maybe someone here could help me out even. Beer/wine/champagne do not taste good to me at all, do they taste good to other people, am I just weird?
Or is the only reason that anyone else drinks for purely social reasons, at least at first until they develop a liking for alcohol?

Wow, a kindred spirit! You and I should meet up sometime, I'll buy you a... oh wait

You may or may not be weird (I think just being into physics makes us all a little weird), but you're certainly not alone. I can't stand the taste or smell of ethanol either. As far as others, I've heard a few people say that they didn't particularly like beer at first, but they eventually developed a taste for it; I'm not sure whether that applies to everybody or if there are some people who actually, honestly like the stuff. Pretty much everyone I know has been drinking long enough to become desensitized to it. Especially the physicists, actually... it seems like the higher I go in physics (currently up to 2nd year of grad school), the more addicted people are to beer. (At some point between that and professorship, I guess it shifts over to wine)

For what it's worth, you need the under-21 excuse to hide behind. Not liking the taste of alcohol should be reason enough not to drink it; that's what I would tell people even before I turned 21.

 

[Moonbear]

It has nothing to do with being a physicist. I know people who are biologists, lawyers, writers, etc., who just don't like the taste of alcohol, so don't drink. I know physicists who do enjoy a good beer or nice glass of wine too (where has Gokul gone? ).

If you don't like it, don't drink it, and don't let anyone force you into drinking it just to "fit in." Likewise, if you enjoy it, go ahead and have a drink or two and don't let anyone tell you you shouldn't just because THEY don't like it. Everything in moderation is all one needs to remember.

 

[JaWiB]

I have a feeling that the brain damage caused by the occasional drink is far less significant than that caused by pounding one's head against the desk while working on physics problems, or reading some of the posts on this forum for that matter :D

 

[Loren Booda]

Alcohol has been tested practically for quite a while. That a substance is natural makes no guarantee that it is safe.

In the United States alcohol causes the greatest monetary toll of any drug. For those who are alcoholics, the first drink was probably pleasureful, but soon pleasure became an elusive spirit.

If you feel like you must take a drug, see a scientist like a psychiatrist for appropriate and effective alternatives. (Physicists are probably more concerned about drunk driving and other kinetic "accidents" than losing brain cells from moderate drinking.)

 

[Jack21222]

I am almost 21 (will be at the end of this month), and to be honest I'm not looking forward to not having that excuse any more. I could always just say I'm not 21.
Even if I go to a party, I don't drink, and I don't want to.

It probably does have something to do with me wanting to keep my brain as healthy as I can... but also, I just really truly don't see what the point is to drinking.
I can't ask anyone because it would sound lame, so maybe someone here could help me out even. Beer/wine/champagne do not taste good to me at all, do they taste good to other people, am I just weird?
Or is the only reason that anyone else drinks for purely social reasons, at least at first until they develop a liking for alcohol?

I'm 27, and I don't drink. Never really have... I had a half a glass of wine when I was 18 at a family gathering. I had one shot of peach schnapps when I was 16 at Christmas. Didn't really like either of them. Of course I should note that I'm not a physicist, just a 2nd year physics student.

There are several reasons I don't drink:

1) I'm happy with how my mind works as it is, and I don't think I'd like that altered. If it's not broke, don't fix it, you know?

b...2) I don't think I'd know when to stop. I get addicted to things easily, whether it's an MMORPG, or playing online poker, I have trouble stopping. My father is an alcoholic, my mother is addicted to gambling... and I think that might be hereditary.

3 or c) Alcohol is expensive. When I go to a bar, I get a 2 dollar soda, and free refills all night. My friends leave 40 dollars poorer. That gives me more keno money (there goes the gambling thing again.)

4, d, or iv) I kinda like the looks on peoples faces when I tell them I don't drink.

I've never really had a problem with having to come up with excuses with friends. Just tell them you don't drink, and most people say "wow, good for you." The people that ask why are usually happy when I just tell them anyone of the above reasons. I don't feel it has hurt my social life any, except with douchebags I wouldn't want to associate with anyway. It's a handy screen to have.

Jim Gaffigan has a good bit about that. It starts at 1 minute into this video:

http://comedians.jokes.com/jim-gaffigan/videos/jim-gaffigan---people-who-don-t-drink

 

[leroyjenkens]

I've never had the desire to drink or get drunk. Even at parties or hanging out with friends when I was younger, I was the only one not drinking or doing any drugs. Kids think that they'll be ostracized for not following along and doing drugs like everyone else, but it's just the opposite. If you have the guts to be different, that will elicit more respect than just being another sheep following the herd.
Just as long as you make it clear you're also not a snitch.

My sister is a year older than me and she used to do all that stuff. I'm no physicist, but I was smart enough to learn from her mistakes when she wasn't.

 

[cristo]

]If you have the guts to be different, that will elicit more respect than just being another sheep following the herd.

So, by your reasoning, if one enjoys a drink then they are a "sheep"? Do you like steak, or do you eat potatoes? If so, then you're clearly a sheep following the herd. Maybe you should start eating rocks if you want to be different.

Seriously, I don't believe your implications that everyone who drinks is some sort of crazy party animal set on destroying their lives. Sure, such people exist, but they are in the minority. I know a lot of people who, whilst at college for example, drank quite heavily, but they are now incredibly successful people. They haven't destroyed their lives, or made mistakes that righteous people should have "learned from".

The bottom line is that everything, in excess, is bad for you, but in moderation alcohol is not going to destroy someone's life! Pontificating will not change that.

 

[xxChrisxx]

So, by your reasoning, if one enjoys a drink then they are a "sheep"? Do you like steak, or do you eat potatoes? If so, then you're clearly a sheep following the herd. Maybe you should start eating rocks if you want to be different.

Depends on the reasons, if they are not drinking because they don't like it, then that's fair enough. It shows a strength of character. If they are not drinking specifically to be different from he crowd, then that is just sad.

 

[jamesa00789]

I drink. Lots. I enjoy it. I also enjoy having sex with a lot of girls.

At the end of the day I am a student at a large university...feel my drift?

 

[leroyjenkens]

So, by your reasoning, if one enjoys a drink then they are a "sheep"? Do you like steak, or do you eat potatoes? If so, then you're clearly a sheep following the herd. Maybe you should start eating rocks if you want to be different.

You're the one who apparently thinks "a sheep following the herd" includes anyone who drinks, cause I wasn't implying that at all.

Seriously, I don't believe your implications that everyone who drinks is some sort of crazy party animal set on destroying their lives.

Wow.

The bottom line is that everything, in excess, is bad for you, but in moderation alcohol is not going to destroy someone's life!

Actually, my exact words were "anyone who drinks will turn into a giant monster and destroy cities until the army comes to stop them".

 

[cronxeh]

I drank last night, and this morning I have a phone number of a very sexy girl.

 

[xxChrisxx]

I drank last night, and this morning I have a phone number of a very sexy girl.

Score.

 

[Evo]

Score.

I know lots of women that used to give out bogus phone numbers to guys in bars rather than refuse to give out a number.

 

[rootX]

 

[D H]

If physicists are anything like philosophers, yes!

Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume
Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya'
'Bout the raising of the wrist.

SOCRATES, HIMSELF, WAS PERMANENTLY PISSED...

John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away;
Half a crate of whiskey every day.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart: "I drink, therefore I am"

Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed!​

 

[rewebster]

I drink a lot of coffee and sweetened chilled (no ice) tea, and hot tea (and less often) cocoa and the herb teas.


Alcohol has been lower on the list lately.

 

[xxChrisxx]

I know lots of women that used to give out bogus phone numbers to guys in bars rather than refuse to give out a number.

Aww! That's sneaky!

In the UK Radio 1 had a flirtdivert number that women could give out to chumps. Then the more embarassing/funny voice messages or texts would be read out on air.

Tight, but very very funny.

 

[cristo]

In the UK Radio 1 had a flirtdivert number that women could give out to chumps. Then the more embarassing/funny voice messages or texts would be read out on air.

Haha, I was just thinking about Scott Mills and his flirt-divert number when Evo mentioned that. The messages left on there ranged from hilarious to downright creepy!

 

[arunma]

I'm surprised that there are so many people here who don't drink. In my department it's a rarity for anyone to not drink. In fact in my 2.5 years here, I've only known two people who abstain completely. And it's not just the grad students. My first year of grad school I convinced about ten professors to come to the bar with us, and most of them drank too. This is not to say I think there's anything wrong with not drinking. I would hope that physicists are old enough to not believe this silly idea that you need to drink to be socially acceptable.

As others have said, moderation is important. I probably have beer or wine every two or three days, but I'm not much into the hard liquor, and I'm even less into getting wasted. Who wants to wake up with a headache the next morning?

 

[Oddbio]

Perhaps it has to do with the effects of the drinks on different people. For instance, I was 19 and I had pretty much never had any alcohol at all and I was invited by a guy to go to a bar (he got me in because he used to work there and knew the bouncers and owner).

So that night I had mixed drinks, at least 3 beers, like 5 shots.. but I didn't really feel anything at all. I guess I was kinda buzzed, but I drove home fine, and I felt about the same as I would have had I not drank anything, until the next morning.. and I remembered everything from the night before.

So maybe I don't drink (now) because it really doesn't do anything for me, it tastes bad and makes me sick the next day and that's about it.
But others can drink like half a beer and it makes them feel good I guess. So I could see why those people would like to drink.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[Galteeth]

I am almost 21 (will be at the end of this month), and to be honest I'm not looking forward to not having that excuse any more. I could always just say I'm not 21.
Even if I go to a party, I don't drink, and I don't want to.

It probably does have something to do with me wanting to keep my brain as healthy as I can... but also, I just really truly don't see what the point is to drinking.
I can't ask anyone because it would sound lame, so maybe someone here could help me out even. Beer/wine/champagne do not taste good to me at all, do they taste good to other people, am I just weird?
Or is the only reason that anyone else drinks for purely social reasons, at least at first until they develop a liking for alcohol?

I would just say I don't like to drink. To be honest, I think people will respect you more for just saying you don't want to then using an excuse.

 

[xxChrisxx]

So that night I had mixed drinks, at least 3 beers, like 5 shots.. but I didn't really feel anything at all. I guess I was kinda buzzed, but I drove home fine, and I felt about the same as I would have had I not drank anything, until the next morning.. and I remembered everything from the night before.

I chuckled at this, 3 beers and 5 shots as a (edit: read it wrong you rembered everything. I read it as couldn't remember) night out.

I don't reccomend the driving part though.

 

[Oddbio]

lol, ok so maybe it wasn't a "night out".
But either way, I'm sure you understand my point, even if it may not be that strong by the situation I presented.
Do you think there's some truth to it though?

 

[xxChrisxx]

Yeah I understand what you are saying that you don't really like/care for the effects, you may not have felt anything but that amount would have affected you.

I gaurantee you that that amount will have affected your judgement and reactions, so the driving was probably a bad idea, even if you felt fine. In most euopean countries that amount would have put of over the legal blood alcohol limit for driving. (don't know where you are from or the laws there)

 

[okkvlt]

alcohol isn't my intoxicant of choice because alcohol has lowered my inhibitions and caused me to do things that have gotten me in trouble. personally, i prefer cannabis and dextromethorphan(cough medicine). lately however i have done neither due to being on probation. btw, dextromethorphan, despite being legal IS tested for in UA's. i found that out the hard way.

personally i think that between marijuana and alcohol, alcohol is much more harmful. a little bit of pot never hurt nobody. but look at how many deaths are caused both directly and indirectly due to alcohol.

 

[Enjoicube]

Now that the age of drinking is upon me, I have given a bit of thought to this. To be honest, I don't think my drinking habits will change, I have 1 beer every 6 months or so. I am not opposed to drinking, but I don't have any time for it, during the school year I have too much work to even consider it, and even on break, I'm so often thinking about math and physics in which I don't wish to be disturbed. So drinking comes in the rare pauses where I am not reading or thinking about math or physics, and even then I'm often not in the mood to drink.

 

[kakarotyjn]

I don't want to drink,though I can drink much beer.I agree with Oddbio,I am afraid of damaging my brain.And I have a question why so much people like drinking alcohol?It really tastes bad,and it is not sweet.

I prefer beverage to beer in a party if I can choose :)

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I know lots of women that used to give out bogus phone numbers to guys in bars rather than refuse to give out a number.

That's how I ended up with my wife. You women should use a 555 number to insure that the number really is bogus.

 

[leroyjenkens]

That's how I ended up with my wife. You women should use a 555 number to insure that the number really is bogus.

Or just say you don't have a phone. If he asks for your address, say you live with your paranoid friend who doesn't want anyone giving out the address. That beats taking the chance that you'll bump into them again and have to explain why the person they called had no idea who you are.
Or here's a wild idea; try being honest.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Or here's a wild idea; try being honest.

This. Frank honesty works best in all situations.

"i'm sorry I don't want to give you my number" solves any potential problem.

 

[lisab]

This. Frank honesty works best in all situations.

"i'm sorry I don't want to give you my number" solves any potential problem.

Glad you specified frank honesty, because not all honesty is frank:

"What's your number?"
"It's in the phone book."
"OK, what's your name?"
"It's in the phone book, too."

No lie there .

 

[rewebster]

"What's your number?"
"It's in the phone book."
"OK, what's your name?"
"It's in the phone book, too."

"OK---it may take a day or two of trial and error before you get my call"

 

[BobG]

Never think about that, don't really care if it takes x amount of brain cells.

Life is for living. Do I really care if I've got 10% less brain calls at the time of retirement...? not really no. The way people talk about it, you'd think it was like getting a lobotomy.

In the wild, animals of prey tend to herd together for protection. The herd can only travel as fast as the slowest and weakest members, meaning the speed and strength of the best members is wasted. Fortunately, predators kill the weakest and slowest members, resuting in a faster, stronger, healthier herd.

I think it's only logical the most likely brain cells to be killed off by alcohol are the ones that were weaker to begin with. Just like predators improve the herd's performance by killing off the weakest members, alcohol improves the brain's performance by killing off the weakest, poorest performing cells.

That's probably why a person can remember so little after drinking extreme amounts of alcohol. The cells that have been contaminated by the memories of your stupidest moments are quite naturally killed off as soon as possible.

 

[rewebster]

In the wild, animals of prey tend to herd together for protection. The herd can only travel as fast as the slowest and weakest members, meaning the speed and strength of the best members is wasted. Fortunately, predators kill the weakest and slowest members, resulting in a faster, stronger, healthier herd.

I think it's only logical the most likely brain cells to be killed off by alcohol are the ones that were weaker to begin with. Just like predators improve the herd's performance by killing off the weakest members, alcohol improves the brain's performance by killing off the weakest, poorest performing cells.

That's probably why a person can remember so little after drinking extreme amounts of alcohol. The cells that have been contaminated by the memories of your stupidest moments are quite naturally killed off as soon as possible.

so, theoretically, drunks should be smart people because they have only the strong brain cells left!

 

[BobG]

so, theoretically, drunks should be smart people because they have only the strong brain cells left!

Not only should be true, http://giftededucation.suite101.com/article.cfm/gifted_students_and_alcohol_awareness. Of course, the IQ tests were done at the age of 10, so it's just possible that high IQ could make alcohol abuse more likely rather than the other way around.

They mention that the reason for the correlation between intelligence and alcohol abuse was something impossible to determine from the study, but I did find one possible reason interesting - that a higher IQ makes it easier for a person to hide signs of depression, making it likelier (and more necessary) for them to find their own, possibly less effective methods of dealing with depression.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Not only should be true, but is true. Of course, the IQ tests were done at the age of 10, so it's just possible that high IQ could make alcohol abuse more likely rather than the other way around.

I'd say so, unless they were drunks at the age of 10.

I guess this is one reason why me being an idiot is a good thing. I've never drank alcohol in my life.

 

[Oddbio]

You can't just go applying that logic willy-nilly to any situation. Alcohol is not a conscious predator, and your brain cells aren't running anywhere that would make the stronger ones "escape" the alcohol. I would guess that it's just random. But you never know, the alcohol might even be more attracted to more active synapses.

 

[rewebster]

Not only should be true, http://giftededucation.suite101.com/article.cfm/gifted_students_and_alcohol_awareness. Of course, the IQ tests were done at the age of 10, so it's just possible that high IQ could make alcohol abuse more likely rather than the other way around.

They mention that the reason for the correlation between intelligence and alcohol abuse was something impossible to determine from the study, but I did find one possible reason interesting - that a higher IQ makes it easier for a person to hide signs of depression, making it likelier (and more necessary) for them to find their own, possibly less effective methods of dealing with depression.

and, maybe, all those smart people realize that they have to do something (drink) to fit in (to have fewer brain cells)---



so, maybe, if you run into someone who appears to be smart and not fitting in, suggest that they need a good night out at their favorite pub...

 

[Oddbio]

Also.. I wonder how their IQ compares in adult hood. They only say they were more gifted in childhood, so perhaps a higher childhood IQ is in fact more conducive to them eventually drinking alcohol for whatever reason, but it doesn't in any way imply that alcohol is increasing their intelligence.