Do SI Units Eliminate the Need for Mechanical Equivalent of Heat?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between mechanical work and heat in the context of SI units, specifically addressing whether the mechanical equivalent of heat is necessary when using these units. Participants explore the implications of equating work and heat, and the conceptual understanding of energy forms in thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that in SI units, the Joule serves as the unit for both work and heat, suggesting that no conversion factor is needed.
  • Others contend that while the units are the same, work and heat represent different processes in classical thermodynamics.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of the mechanical equivalent of heat, noting that it highlights the transition from the Caloric Theory to a broader understanding of energy forms.
  • Another participant points out that the equivalence of work and heat is not merely a unit conversion but signifies a deeper relationship between two previously distinct concepts.
  • There is a mention of the First Law of Thermodynamics, which relates changes in internal energy to work and heat, indicating that both processes can lead to the same effect on a system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the mechanical equivalent of heat is necessary in SI units. While some agree on the equivalence of work and heat in terms of units, others maintain that they are fundamentally different processes, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the significance of understanding the processes involved in work and heat transfer, suggesting that the discussion is limited by the complexity of thermodynamic principles and the historical context of energy concepts.

Nikhil Rajagopalan
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When computing the rise in temperature on a body due to mechanical work, if we stick to using SI units, do we need the conversion factor called mechanical equivalent of heat. That is, can we readily equate W = Q and hence W = m x C x ΔT . Where 'm' is the mass of the substance on which work is done, 'C' is its specific heat capacity and ' ΔT ' its the rise in temperature, all in SI units.
 
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Nikhil Rajagopalan said:
if we stick to using SI units, do we need the conversion factor called mechanical equivalent of heat.
The Joule is the SI unit of both work and heat, so there is no conversion factor in SI.

Nikhil Rajagopalan said:
That is, can we readily equate W = Q
They have the same SI units, but they are still not the same thing in classical thermodynamics.
 
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Dale said:
The Joule is the SI unit of both work and heat, so there is no conversion factor in SI.

They have the same SI units, but they are still not the same thing in classical thermodynamics.
The following light hearted video clip seems apposite :-
 
Nikhil Rajagopalan said:
the conversion factor called mechanical equivalent of heat
It's present, in effect because the heating effect is determined by the heat capacity of the object in question. This is now stated in terms of Joules needed to raise its temperature, rather than Calories required to do the same thing.
I actually highly approve of the old term "Mechanical Equivalent of Heat" because it makes you remember that they have moved on from the Caloric Theory and actually spotted that Energy can have more than one form. Students who grow up on SI could miss out on the significance of the stunning discovery by Rumford, Joule and others.
 
tech99 said:
The following light hearted video clip seems apposite :-
Very cute video! Cute, but wrong
 
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Nikhil Rajagopalan said:
When computing the rise in temperature on a body due to mechanical work, if we stick to using SI units, do we need the conversion factor called mechanical equivalent of heat.

One joule of work is equivalent to one joule of heat. The equivalence is not just a unit conversion. It's a statement that two things that were previously thought to be different are instead the same.

That is, can we readily equate W = Q and hence W = m x C x ΔT . Where 'm' is the mass of the substance on which work is done, 'C' is its specific heat capacity and ' ΔT ' its the rise in temperature, all in SI units.

As long as you understand that those are two different processes. That is, you can have one process where you do work ##W## on an object and increase its internal energy by ##cm\Delta T##. In which case you might write ##\Delta U = W##. Or a different process where you transfer heat ##Q## to an object, increase its internal energy by ##cm\Delta T##, and write ##\Delta U = Q##.

##W## in the first process is equal to ##Q## in the second process. The fact that they have the same effect on the object is the true meaning of the equivalence of heat and work.

The full generalization is the First Law of Thermodynamics, ##\Delta U = Q+W##. (I'm using the convention where ##W## is the work done on a system.)
 

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