Do the positions of stars determine our position in time,or does our

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between the positions of stars and the concepts of time and motion. Participants debate whether the positions of stars can determine our position in time or if our temporal position influences the arrangement of stars. The conversation includes philosophical inquiries about the nature of time, motion, and perception.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that position and time are separate dimensions, suggesting that without motion, they are not related.
  • Others question whether time can pass if nothing moves, exploring the implications of such a scenario on the perception of time.
  • A participant raises the idea that if higher-dimensional beings could observe a 4-dimensional world line, they might perceive time differently, although this is met with skepticism regarding its relevance to physics.
  • Some contributions highlight that time exists independently of motion, with examples like atomic clocks that do not rely on classical movement.
  • There is a discussion about whether the positions of stars can indicate the time of year, with some asserting it does not directly relate to the original question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between time and motion, with no consensus reached. Some agree that time can exist independently of motion, while others challenge this notion and explore its implications.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes philosophical considerations about the nature of time and consciousness, as well as the limitations of measuring time without motion. Some assumptions about the nature of time and dimensionality remain unresolved.

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Do the positions of stars determine our position in time,
or does our position in time determine the positions of stars?
 
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Neither. Position and time are not related (without motion, of course). Position is 3 dimensions, time is a separate, fourth dimension.
 


If nothing - nothing - moves, does time still pass? How can you tell? Do we always measure time by observing motion? If we were higher dimensional beings, and could observe an object's 4-dimensional 'world line' in it's entirety, as a static graph (like a simple, x vs. t plot looks to us) - would we still be capable of the sensation of time passing?

Is this physics? I dunno.
 


russ_watters said:
Neither. Position and time are not related (without motion, of course). Position is 3 dimensions, time is a separate, fourth dimension.

I know that physics has developed to consider time as just another dimension... but can't you tell what time of year it is by observing/measuring positions of stars in the night sky?
 


gmax137 said:
If nothing - nothing - moves, does time still pass? How can you tell? Do we always measure time by observing motion? If we were higher dimensional beings, and could observe an object's 4-dimensional 'world line' in it's entirety, as a static graph (like a simple, x vs. t plot looks to us) - would we still be capable of the sensation of time passing?

Is this physics? I dunno.

Two points here.

1: We could never be sure nothing was moving anyways thanks to uncertainty.

2: The sensation of time passing implies some type of being to experience the sensation and if nothing is moving how can you have a being? (Analogy for humans: nerves are firing which involves movements. Surely there has to be some process necessary for consciousness, so no such sensation could be experienced without motion) This point is less important because point 1 basically covers it, but it's interesting nonetheless.
 


There are things for which time does not exist despite motion. They are called conserving values - the total energy, momentum, etc. Of course, they are numbers, not objects.

Bob.
 


gmax137 said:
If nothing - nothing - moves, does time still pass?
Well that's an impossible scenario, but in any case, time exists independent of motion. Ie, if an object is stationary, it still "experiences" time.
How can you tell?
You probably can't.
Do we always measure time by observing motion?
Not exactly. Atomic clocks use quantum mechanics. They do not move in the classical/macroscopic sense. [quote If we were higher dimensional beings, and could observe an object's 4-dimensional 'world line' in it's entirety, as a static graph (like a simple, x vs. t plot looks to us) - would we still be capable of the sensation of time passing?

Is this physics? I dunno.[/QUOTE] That one isn't physics and has no answer.
 


pLatOscLoSET said:
...but can't you tell what time of year it is by observing/measuring positions of stars in the night sky?
Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with your question.
 


russ_watters said:
Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with your question.

Why not... actually I should say how so?
 
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