Does a standing wave have zero momentum?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether a standing wave possesses zero momentum, particularly in the context of electromagnetic standing waves confined within a metal box. Participants explore the implications of wave superposition, momentum transport, and the distinction between linear and canonical momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that a standing wave is a superposition of two traveling waves moving in opposite directions, leading to questions about the momentum at every point along the wave.
  • One participant argues that while there is significant motion in the standing wave, the macroscopic longitudinal momentum transport is zero due to the cancellation of the momenta of the opposing waves.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the term "momentum transport," suggesting that energy transport in traveling waves is related to momentum.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between energy flow and momentum, indicating that the energy transport in the electromagnetic field corresponds to linear momentum, which is described by the Poynting vector.
  • One participant introduces the distinction between linear momentum and canonical momentum, asserting that while canonical momentum exists in the field, linear momentum is zero for standing waves due to the lack of spatial translation over time.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the oscillation of standing waves implies some form of momentum, despite the cancellation of linear momenta, and highlights the importance of considering different types of momentum in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of momentum in standing waves, with no consensus reached on whether standing waves have zero momentum. The discussion highlights multiple competing perspectives on the definitions and implications of momentum in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as linear momentum, canonical momentum, and energy transport, indicating that the discussion is nuanced and dependent on specific definitions and interpretations of these terms.

jcap
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I understand that a standing wave in one dimension is a superposition of a traveling wave going one way with a traveling wave going the other way.

Does that mean that the momentum at every point along the combined standing wave is zero?

For example if one has elecromagnetic standing waves confined in a metal box does that mean they have zero momentum everywhere inside the box?
 
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Depends on what you are looking at. e.g. here you see a lot of motion, so no zero momentum. But the macroscopic longitudinal momentum transport for identical waves traveling in opposite directions is zero.
 
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BvU said:
Depends on what you are looking at. e.g. here you see a lot of motion, so no zero momentum. But the macroscopic longitudinal momentum transport for identical waves traveling in opposite directions is zero.
What is "momentum transport"?

--
lightarrow
 
With a traveling wave you can transport energy (and thus also momentum). Think of the picture in the link -- but for the wave moving to the right only.
(Equivalent link here, longitudinal waves picture in the lower left -- but I can only see a small part of it with my browser...).
 
BvU said:
With a traveling wave you can transport energy (and thus also momentum).

For physical fields, isn't the energy transport you are talking about precisely the momentum the OP is asking about? i.e. the linear momentum of an elementary volume of the E-M field (Poynting vector) representing a flow of energy density, with a corresponding continuity equation which relates both quantities and describes local energy conservation. Transporting momentum would require stress in the E-M field. Basically I'm just pointing out that energy flow is linear momentum and momentum flow is stress.
 
I think the OP's question brings up the difference between linear momentum and canonical momentum - i.e. the momentum in field space. Although a transverse standing wave in the E-M field has non-zero canonical momentum ("field momentum") everywhere apart from the nodes, there is no linear momentum of the field given that there is no spatial translation of the field itself over time - there's no Noether current.
So the linear momentum of the E-M field, namely the quantity which scatters charges and corresponds to energy flow in the field and the momentum we usually think of which knocks things around, is precisely the Noether current associated with space translational symmetry. This quantity would be zero for the setup devised by the OP given that nothing is being translated in physical space. However there is a translation in field space encapsulated by the canonical momentum which describes the change in the field value at any point over time and is evidently not zero for E-M standing waves, otherwise the standing waves wouldn't oscillate in time.
 
Well, and here I am thinking OP is in the early stages of learning about waves ?! jcap, tell us some more !
 
May well be, it's a good question to ask because there seems to still be some kind of momentum given that the standing waves oscillate in time, yet at first sight one might think that the oppositely traveling waves have momenta that cancel. The point is the linear momenta of the waves (which generate wave translations) cancel, but we still have momentum in field space.. there are two different momenta which one has to consider and the OP's question points to that.
 

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