Does Electron Cloud Distribution Affect the Repulsion Between Atoms?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of atomic repulsion and the role of electron cloud distribution in this phenomenon. Participants explore concepts from quantum mechanics, particularly regarding the definition of electron positions and the implications for electric fields between atoms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why atoms repel each other if electrons are not confined to defined regions of space, suggesting a need to understand the distribution of electric fields.
  • Another participant asserts that mutual electric repulsion is a result of electric fields, but raises concerns about the variability of the electron's position affecting the strength of the electric field during interactions.
  • There is a discussion about the interpretation of quantum mechanics, with one participant suggesting that quantum fluctuations are intrinsic and not merely due to measurement limitations.
  • A later reply references an article on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, proposing that while the electron exists in a cloud, its exact position is unknown until measured, implying a distinction between inherent uncertainty and measurement capability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of electron positions and the implications for atomic interactions. There is no consensus on whether electrons have definite positions or if their distributions inherently affect atomic repulsion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of quantum mechanics and the interpretation of electric fields, which may not be universally accepted. The implications of the inverse square law in relation to electron positions are also noted but not fully resolved.

jaydnul
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Why do atoms repel each other when their electrons aren't in any defined region of space? If we think of the electron as completely smeared out over the whole volume of the orbital, is the electric field just distributed evenly and continuously across it? Or do electrons always have a definite region in space and a definite momentum its just that we cannot measure them to exact precision?

Thanks
 
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Jd0g33 said:
Why do atoms repel each other when their electrons aren't in any defined region of space?

They have electric fields and mutual electric repulsion (or attraction) persists as a result. It's as simple as that.

Jd0g33 said:
Or do electrons always have a definite region in space and a definite momentum its just that we cannot measure them to exact precision?

If you try to interpret QM like that you will inevitably run into quite a few serious problems. The mainstream view is that quantum fluctuations of observables are intrinsic and not due to our own ignorance. Systems simply do not "possess" position or momentum in general.
 
WannabeNewton said:
They have electric fields and mutual electric repulsion (or attraction) persists as a result. It's as simple as that.

But where do we measure the source of the electric field. In hydrogen, the electron could be different distances from the second atom about to collide. If the radius is 10^-10 meters, then the field could be much weaker if it was on the opposite side of its nucleus with respect to the incoming atom, right? (inverse square law)
 
I think I understand. I just read ZapperZ's article on the HUP misinterpretation. What I got from it is essentially this: Quantum mechanics is a theory that tells us how accurately we can predict the state of a quantum system, but we can always MEASURE a system to an arbitrary accuracy based on how good our device is. So the electron is always somewhere in the cloud, we just don't know where until we measure?

Zz's article: http://physicsandphysicists.blogspot.com/2006/11/misconception-of-heisenberg-uncertainty.html
 

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