Does Relativity Support the Masslessness of Photons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of special relativity on the properties of particles, particularly photons, and the concepts of length contraction and time dilation as one approaches the speed of light. It explores hypothetical scenarios regarding mass and the perception of space and time at relativistic speeds.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if a particle could be accelerated to the speed of light, its length would become zero, potentially implying that mass would also become zero.
  • Another participant counters that since it is impossible to accelerate a particle to the speed of light, the preceding questions may lack meaningful context.
  • A participant raises a hypothetical question about the relationship between time dilation and length contraction, asking if both reach infinity at the speed of light.
  • There is a discussion about whether an observer approaching the speed of light would perceive their surroundings as larger and faster, with differing opinions on this perception.
  • One participant critiques the relevance of spin foam models in understanding basic special relativity, suggesting that they complicate the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of special relativity, particularly regarding the acceleration to the speed of light and the resulting effects on mass and perception. There is no consensus on the hypothetical scenarios presented.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the nature of time dilation and length contraction are not fully explored, and the discussion includes unresolved questions about the relationship between these phenomena at relativistic speeds.

jerromyjon
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From what I understand Einstein was the person who decided length contraction would indeed occur in the vector of velocity, more so as you approach c.

If it were possible to accelerate a particle to c, would the length would become 0?

If the length were to become zero, would the notion of mass become 0 as well?

Also, if the passage of time does tend to reach 0 at c and z becomes 0 would it not make sense that x and y would scale proportionally as well?

I'm not positive of the proper terminology but looking at the spin foam models it would be like the tetrahedral 4 dimensional "imagined" shape where you are in the point in the center and the time points behind your direction of travel and the face triangle would be perpendicular to your velocity vector and the x,y,z would depict your "view" of space.

Is any of this supported by accepted theories?
 
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Since it is impossible to accelerate a particle to c, requiring infinite energy, the other questions are not too meaningful.

Time dilation and length shortening are not intrinsic to the particle being accelerated. They are observations made in the rest frame.
 
I'm basically asking hypothetically since the data that we do have leads to the prediction that it would take an infinite amount of energy to achieve a velocity of c. Is there a linear relationship between dilation and contraction and do they both reach infinity at c?

From my understanding, an observer approaching c would not be able to detect anything changing within their local frame of reference, a second would remain a second and a meter would remain a meter, but would the universe around them appear larger and faster?
 
jerromyjon said:
Is any of this supported by accepted theories?

Not really. (Bringing in spin foams in particular is not helpful; spin foams are an advanced quantum gravity concept, and you're trying to understand basic SR.)

jerromyjon said:
would the universe around them appear larger and faster?

No, it would appear smaller (at least along the direction of relative motion) and slower. (If by "appear" you mean "what the observer would actually observe through a telescope", there are other more complicated effects as well, such as relativistic Doppler and aberration of light.)
 

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