Does the charge have a relativistic origin?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential relationship between the angular frequency of the electron in hydrogen and the charge-to-mass ratio, particularly in the context of special relativity. Participants explore theoretical implications, reference historical models, and question the validity of certain concepts related to atomic structure.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about evidence supporting a relationship between the angular frequency of the electron in hydrogen and the charge-to-mass ratio.
  • One participant proposes a formula relating these quantities, suggesting that the angular frequency can be expressed as fH = 4pi (c^2/v^2) e/m.
  • Questions arise regarding the definitions of "angular frequency" and "rotation speed," with some participants challenging the appropriateness of these terms in describing electron behavior.
  • Another participant critiques the Bohr model, stating it is known to be inaccurate and that it should not be expected to predict all experimental results accurately.
  • Concerns are raised about the relevance of the ionizing frequency of hydrogen to the discussion of angular frequency and rotational velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the Bohr model and the concepts of angular frequency and rotation speed. There is no consensus on the relationship between these quantities or the appropriateness of the proposed formula.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference historical models and theoretical developments, indicating limitations in the applicability of the Bohr model to current understanding. The discussion reflects ongoing debates about foundational concepts in atomic physics.

hcl
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Hello,
Is there any evidence that shows a relationship between the angular frequency of the electron in hydrogen, and the charge-to-mass ratio, by the mean of the special relativity ?

Looking to reading you
 
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hcl said:
Is there any evidence that shows a relationship between the angular frequency of the electron in hydrogen, and the charge-to-mass ratio

Do you think there should be such a relationship? Why or why not? Please give references.
 
PeterDonis said:
Do you think there should be such a relationship? Why or why not? Please give references.

Yes, this relationship is very simple :
fH = 4pi (c^2/v^2) e/m
where fH is the angular frequency of the electron in the hydrogen atom, c is the speed of light, v is the rotation speed of the electron in the hydrogen atom (multiplied by 2).

Reading you
Herve
 
hcl said:
fH is the angular frequency of the electron in the hydrogen atom

What do you mean by "angular frequency"? What measurement does this correspond to?

hcl said:
v is the rotation speed of the electron in the hydrogen atom

What do you mean by "rotation speed"? You do understand that the electron is not a little billiard ball orbiting the nucleus, right?
 
PeterDonis said:
What do you mean by "angular frequency"? What measurement does this correspond to?
What do you mean by "rotation speed"? You do understand that the electron is not a little billiard ball orbiting the nucleus, right?
I mean the one forcasted by Bohr in the Bohr's model (multiplied by 2) . I mean the ionizing frequency of hydrogen (3.288 1015Hz) multiplied by 2 pi (multiplied by 2).
Don't you have a scientific calculator to vevrify the above relation ?
 
hcl said:
the one forcasted by Bohr in the Bohr's model

Which has been known since the early 1920s to be an inaccurate model. So you should not expect it to correctly predict all experimental results. It happened to predict the energy levels of hydrogen to a reasonable approximation based on the data available when it was first proposed, but even by the early 1920s it was known that the hydrogen energy levels had structure that was not predicted by the Bohr model.

hcl said:
the ionizing frequency of hydrogen

That is the frequency of a photon that would be required to take the electron in hydrogen from its ground state to an unbound free state. It has nothing whatever to do with any "angular frequency" of the electron's orbit (which isn't really a meaningful concept anyway).

hcl said:
Don't you have a scientific calculator to vevrify the above relation ?

A scientific calculator is no help in telling you whether the number you are calculating makes sense. Yours doesn't.
 
The OP question is based on a misconception. Thread closed.
 
hcl said:
I mean the one forcasted by Bohr in the Bohr's model (multiplied by 2) . I mean the ionizing frequency of hydrogen (3.288 1015Hz) multiplied by 2 pi (multiplied by 2).
Don't you have a scientific calculator to vevrify the above relation ?
Of course we have access to calculators to check that calculation. We also have access to a century of theoretical developments and experimental results since Bohr proposed his model, so we know that Bohr's model is not accurate and that any discussion involving "rotational velocity" is based on a near-total misunderstanding of the physics involved.
 
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