Does the size of a magnet affect its range?

[danielhaish]

I wandering if the size of magnet or if there is vacuum or not change the range of magnet

 

[danielhaish]

And by the way i read that magnet influence each other imadatally so if the size does have influence on the size of range of the magnetic field is the field will change imadatally

 

[DaveC426913]

What do you think?
What experiments might you perform to find the answers?

 

[DaveC426913]

And by the way i read that magnet influence each other imadatally

Where did you read this?

 

[danielhaish]

I read in a local forum that the influence is imadatally but the sprading of the magnet failed is in the speed of light

 

[danielhaish]

What do you think?
What experiments might you perform to find the answers?

I maight connect tow magnet togher but what can i do for the vacoom efect and the check of the speed of the reaction

 

[DaveC426913]

I read in a local forum that the influence is imadatally but the sprading of the magnet failed is in the speed of light

How can both of these be correct?
If changes in the magnetic field are constrained by the speed of light, how can one affect another immediately?

 

[danielhaish]

It is possible becouse when tow magnet meat each other they craete new wave function so the faild doesn't spread ot just change

 

[danielhaish]

It follow pouli low

 

[danielhaish]

And also i am bew in this forum why did i got waring

 

[DaveC426913]

... the faild doesn't spread ot just change

This is always the case.
By definition, there is always a field; it doesn't move. It is only changes in the field that propagate.Presumably you are typing on a cell phone? PF has standards of legibility. Take more care in typing.

 

[danielhaish]

I am typing on a phone is it worng?
So if i siwth the side of a magnet for exmple.there is tow magnet and before the siwthing they face each other north to north , and then one of them is being swith does the magnet that were siwthed will imadatally start pulling the other magnet?
and olso if i add another magnet those the size of the range will be change otumatclly

 

[phinds]

I am typing on a phone is it worng?

THere is nothing wrong with typing on a phone, but your spelling is SO awful that it is very annoying, even to the point of making it hard to figure out what you are saying.

 

[danielhaish]

Sory then i will try to change it at home and
One more question is it means that every tow magnet in the word have small influence on each other

 

[phinds]

Sory then i will try to change it at home and
One more question is it means that every tow magnet in the word have small influence on each other

I assume you mean TWO magnets, not TOW magnets (which, presumably would be use for towing). Your conclusion is wrong. Why?

 

[danielhaish]

And what about my other conclusion
If i siwth the side of one magnet the influence on the other will be imadatally ?
And you wanted me to ask why so i am asking. Why?

 

[danielhaish]

I am asking all this becouse i want to build communiction system

 

[berkeman]

Welcome to the PF.

I am asking all this becouse i want to build communiction system

I can use my Mentor powers to see that you are posting from outside the US, so some of your typing/translation issues are understandable. Just try to do your best, and we will try to figure out what you are asking.

A couple comments:

• Nothing happens instantaneously. Magnetic field changes (like any Electromagnetic field changes) propagate at the speed of light.
• Communicating with just magnetic fields may not be the best way to do the communcation. If you can say more about the kind of communication you would like to experiment with, we can try to help you with a good setup and circuits.

Also, if you have questions about how to post or use the PF, please feel free to send me a personal message. You can do that by clicking on my avatar/username, and Start a Conversation.

Enjoy the PF, and stay curious!

 

[phinds]

One more question is it means that every tow magnet in the word have small influence on each other

Again, you have stated that you believe "every two magnets in the world will have a small influence on each other"

That is an obviously incorrect statement. I am asking you if you understand WHY it is incorrect.

 

[berkeman]

Again, you have stated that you believe "every two magnets in the world will have a small influence on each other"

That is an obviously incorrect statement. I am asking you if you understand WHY it is incorrect.

I guess I'm not understanding why they don't. Infinetessimally small, maybe, but the fields never reach zero, right?

 

[danielhaish]

I meaned that I wll use two magnets that and one of them will be connect to rotary axis and for send the signal you will flip the magnet and them instad of pulling the other magnet it will push to other magnet so when the two magnet will be on the same pole the signal will be 1 and if the two magnet will be on different poles the signal will be0

 

[phinds]

I guess I'm not understanding why they don't. Infinetessimally small, maybe, but the fields never reach zero, right?

I can't tell whether you are agreeing w/ me or disagreeing w/ me. I assume agreeing but would like clarification. Are you asking ME why they don't have a small influence (ALL magnets), asking HIM why they don't, or what? I'm slow today, perhaps.

 

[berkeman]

I meaned that I wll use two magnets that and one of them will be connect to rotary axis and for send the signal you will flip the magnet and them instad of pulling the other magnet it will push to other magnet so when the two magnet will be on the same pole the signal will be 1 and if the two magnet will be on different poles the signal will be0

That's fine for an experiment to help you learn about communication systems.

One of the key parts of communication systems is "Signal to Noise Ratio". You should do some Google searching (or just read about that at Wikipedia). The closer the two magnets are, the stronger the influence of the transmitting (Tx) magnet on the receiving (Rx) magnet. So if you use some kind of force transducer to pick up the forces on the Rx magnet, you will want to keep the two magnets close enough to each other to be sure that you can see the forces/displacement on the Rx magnet reliably.

Does that make sense?

 

[berkeman]

I can't tell whether you are agreeing w/ me or disagreeing w/ me. I assume agreeing but would like clarification. Are you asking ME why they don't have a small influence (ALL magnets), asking HIM why they don't, or what? I'm slow today, perhaps.

I think I was disagreeing with you. Just like all planets have an influence on each other (however small), it would seem like all magnets in the world feel a small influence from all others (barring perfect B shielding). But if the OP wants to communicate with just B-field changes across the Earth, I agree that is not practical from a S/N standpoint.

 

[danielhaish]

That's fine for an experiment to help you learn about communication systems.

One of the key parts of communication systems is "Signal to Noise Ratio". You should do some Google searching (or just read about that at Wikipedia). The closer the two magnets are, the stronger the influence of the transmitting (Tx) magnet on the receiving (Rx) magnet. So if you use some kind of force transducer to pick up the forces on the Rx magnet, you will want to keep the two magnets close enough to each other to be sure that you can see the forces/displacement on the Rx magnet reliably.

Does that make sense?

Sound ok

 

[danielhaish]

This is really amzing it all most a magic .
They should tech us thing like that in school

 

[phinds]

I think I was disagreeing with you. Just like all planets have an influence on each other (however small), it would seem like all magnets in the world feel a small influence from all others (barring perfect B shielding). But if the OP wants to communicate with just B-field changes across the Earth, I agree that is not practical from a S/N standpoint.

Ah. But his statement was that all magnets have a small influence on each other. I agree that magnets are useless by themselves for long-range communications but I though he felt that literally all magnets have a small effect on each other.

I've tried to take two small rare Earth magnets apart without sliding them past each other. Very hard. Couldn't do it with large ones. Would need a tow truck

 

[berkeman]

Would need a tow truck

Or two trucks maybe...

 

[danielhaish]

No i said it as respone of another massage

 

[berkeman]

i sad

Please cheer up!

 

[danielhaish]

So i am a litle confuse i will send a draw please tell me if it allow communication faster then the light

 

[phinds]

So i am a litle confuse i will send a draw please tell me if it allow communication faster then the light

No. There is no such thing as communication faster than light speed.

 

[danielhaish]

No. There is no such thing as communication faster than light speed.

This is the sipmle version of my system for a short dectance

 

[danielhaish]

Is it going to work

 

[Vanadium 50]

Is it going to work

No. Because..

There is no such thing as communication faster than light speed.

 

[berkeman]

This is the sipmle version of my system for a short dectance

How do you plan to clock this communication system? Is it based on precise clocks at each end (like RS-232), or will you embed a clock in your communication channel like in Differential Manchester Coded communications?

Google each of those if you don't understand my question, and after you have done that reading, feel free to post your questions about that reading here if you don't understand the concept of clocking in communication.

 

[danielhaish]

I do understand every signal will close elctrical syrcal by the movment of the the magnet and i going to use the simple binary packet protocol of compiters

 

[berkeman]

I do understand every signal will close elctrical syrcal by the movment of the the magnet and i going to use the simple binary packet protocol of compiters

PF AI Translation gives:

"I do understand that every signal will close electrical Southern California by the movement of the magnet, and I am going to use the simple binary packet protocol of computers."

I don't understand the Southern California reference, but whatever. Computers use synchronous signalling where a clock accompanies the data. So you will have to say how you plan to send the clock signal with your magnets in addition to the data signal. Will you use two Tx magnets and two Rx magnets to send the data and clock?

 

[danielhaish]

It going to have time counter between two signal if the time between the signal is small so it 0 if is biger then it 1 like morc code

 

[berkeman]

like morc code

So the code will rely on a recovered clock, based on the width of the symbol. That's fine. It's not how you transmit the fastest data, but Morse code is not aimed at fast data transmission. It is aimed at reliable data transmission at human speeds.

Anyway, I think your main question is about using flipping magnetic fields to transmit data. You can do that, but it is far from the best way to do it. Have you tried building this experiment yet?

 

[danielhaish]

No i just was wondering if it possible

 

[berkeman]

No i just was wondering if it possible

It is possible for short distances, but there are much better ways to communicate data wirelessly over longer distances. Can you guess at a few of those better ways?

 

[danielhaish]

Yap Voice waves like radio ,radiation,light, i think that i know how to use this idea for longer distance but i don't really want to tell

 

[berkeman]

i think that i know how to use this idea for longer distance but i don't really want to tell

Please read through this useful reference in case it helps. Let us know if you have questions about this reading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_theory

 

[danielhaish]

Please read through this useful reference in case it helps. Let us know if you have questions about this reading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_theory

Ok thanx

 

[sophiecentaur]

I am typing on a phone is it worng?

Even if you type on a phone, there is no reason not to check what you have typed. If you want the best from PF then you need to make a bit more effort, I think.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I meaned that I wll use two magnets that and one of them will be connect to rotary axis and for send the signal you will flip the magnet and them instad of pulling the other magnet it will push to other magnet so when the two magnet will be on the same pole the signal will be 1 and if the two magnet will be on different poles the signal will be0

This is a fair, valid experiment. But once you are transferring Energy from one magnet to the other, you have evidence that an EM wave has been launched (fields changing with time) and there will also be Electric Fields involved. A magnet rotating at high enough speed will radiate a wave that is indistinguishable by a distant receiver+antenna from the wave transmitted from a conventional RF transmitter.

As mentioned above, the effect can only be measured if the S/N ratio is high enough. Doing the experiment 'mechanically' would be very challenging. Along the lines of detecting gravity waves.

 

[danielhaish]

I don't have to connect it to actuall computer i can connect it to led or something , this is also can be useful as wireless charging

 

[phinds]

I don't have to connect it to actull computer i can connect it to led or somwthing , this is also can be useful as wireless charging

Would you PLEASE start checking your spelling? This has gotten ridiculous. Your incredible sloppiness in posting has been mentioned several times in this thread. Please pay attention and do something about it. Do not hit "post reply" until you have checked your spelling. Thank you.

 

[sophiecentaur]

this is also can be useful as wireless charging

Wireless charging involves the transfer of serious amounts of Power (say a Watt minimum). This would not be practicable with your proposed mechanical system, which would involve microWatt levels. Two different extremes of the same phenomenon.
'Wireless' charging is best described as 'Non-contact' charging. i.e. the device is laid on the dock without being explicitly plugged in. A Power oscillator and two close coupled coils are involved.