Don't try it at home (or you will get arrested)

[Borek]

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Grandma-Arrested-for-Slapping-Granddaughter--92874714.html

 

[Cyrus]

The best part of the article

She swears she'd do it again anyway.

I love this woman.

 

[hypatia]

I hope the grand daughter gets to find a new place to live while she develops a sense of respect.

I adore her too Cyrus.

 

[Cyrus]

What kind of idiot brat child calls the police on her grandmother. Or curses left and right in front of her, for that matter.

 

[BobG]

I wish the reporter would have asked the most intriguing question:

How many times did the grandma hear the f-word while she was in jail?

Or did the inmates show more respect for her than the granddaughter?

 

[Borg]

What kind of idiot brat child calls the police on her grandmother. Or curses left and right in front of her, for that matter.

An idiot brat.

BTW, I can't wait to see how long it takes for someone in the "Why people have so many children?" thread to notice this one. That thread has devolved into a discussion of punishment (and torture).

 

[LeroyLaRey]

I can't say for sure because I didn't see it, but there 2 problems here (maybe 3 if grandma used slapping before reasoning):
1) the kid is gaming the system to insult her grandma's values.
2) the cops are tripping on their own power apparently to impress the girl.

Grandma took responsibility for her action so she has my kudos, but neither the cops or the kid did.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

The kid is WAY out of line, and the grandmother needs to learn how to communicate without violence, or really it's no wonder that that her grandchild isn't a peach. Now granny has an arrest record, and that kid is on record as being a worthless ****. I like granny too, even if I don't agree with her reasons or methods; tough old biddy!

I should add, from what I understand the law requires police in the USA to arrest the battering party in a domestic dispute. Don't blame the police, blame the legislature for not being able to write a law to protect people without putting grandma in jail.

 

[Jack21222]

Granddaughter or not, you cannot slap another adult across the face because you don't like what they say. To my knowledge, blood relation doesn't change the legal status of battery.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Granddaughter or not, you cannot slap another adult across the face because you don't like what they say. To my knowledge, blood relation doesn't change the legal status of battery.

I looked at a few state's laws, and blood relation means it is Domestic Battery, which requires one go to jail if there is a visible injury, even a bruise.

http://www.legalchip.com/Domestic-Violence.aspx
http://www.sandiegocrimedefense.com/domesticviolence-restrainingorders.html
http://www.thelegaldefenders.com/domestic_battery_attorney_chicago_il.html
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/witnessdvall.pdf

 

[ideasrule]

The kid is WAY out of line, and the grandmother needs to learn how to communicate without violence, or really it's no wonder that that her grandchild isn't a peach. Now granny has an arrest record, and that kid is on record as being a worthless ****. I like granny too, even if I don't agree with her reasons or methods; tough old biddy!

Amen to everything except the last sentence. Neither the granddaughter nor the grandmother acted appropriately in this case.

 

[rhody]

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Grandma-Arrested-for-Slapping-Granddaughter--92874714.html

Borek,

All I have to say is: "Thank God for common sense."

I can't wait to see how long it takes for someone in the "Why people have so many children?" thread to notice this one. That thread has devolved into a discussion of punishment (and torture).

Borg,

I agree, it is truly amazing to see that the inner workings of some people's (thought process) so diametrically opposed to everything you were raised to believe. (In this case respect for others, decency, etc...)
Note: that's what mentors are for, I have seen more than a few of the threads I have been responding too lately with members suddenly "banned" they must be doing their jobs, eh ?

Rhody...

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Amen to everything except the last sentence. Neither the granddaughter nor the grandmother acted appropriately in this case.

I like her, I don't agree with her. Something about a tough granny is funny to me. As I said, I don't agree with her methods, and if you can't reason with someone, you don't get to hit them. I always laugh at the "They hit me first" defense on COPS. I never see it work, just two people in jail.

 

[zomgwtf]

Why slap her? Makes no sense to me.

Sure the daughter needs to learn some respect but if there's one thing I learned living with my step-father it's that hitting a person doesn't make the other person listen and it gains you no respect... in fact they lose respect for you. (Even though in this case it would appear the granddaughter had very minimal respect)

I mean like this wasn't just some slap on the hand or smack on the butt. This was a smack across the face.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Why slap her? Makes no sense to me.

Sure the daughter needs to learn some respect but if there's one thing I learned living with my step-father it's that hitting a person doesn't make the other person listen and it gains you no respect... in fact they lose respect for you. (Even though in this case it would appear the granddaughter had very minimal respect)

I mean like this wasn't just some slap on the hand or smack on the butt. This was a smack across the face.

She says she'd do it again too. Really? She hasn't had enough time in life and jail to consider a better response than backhanding a relative?

 

[waht]

This incident is a clash of generations. In either case, nobody is to be blamed.

I try to imagine what was it like to grow up since 1930s. Life was much simpler, but also one had to work a lot harder to earn those pennies. I also try to imagine what it was like growing up in this generation and then compare the two. It's a total mess.

In the end it's the socio-economic forces that shaped who we are and what we demand of others.

 

[Evo]

When you grow up where a spanking is not only appropriate, it is considered the only right way to discipline a child, you have a different outlook.

I think older people here will be more accepting than the much younger members.

 

[Borg]

When you grow up where a spanking is not opnly appropriate, it the considered the only right way to discipline a child, you have a different outlook.

I think older people here will be more accepting than the much younger members.

Creaks in agreement...

 

[zomgwtf]

This incident is a clash of generations. In either case, nobody is to be blamed.

I try to imagine what was it like to grow up since 1930s. Life was much simpler, but also one had to work a lot harder to earn those pennies. I also try to imagine what it was like growing up in this generation and then compare the two. It's a total mess.

In the end it's the socio-economic forces that shaped who we are and what we demand of others.

I'm not sure I follow. Back in the 1930s it was common practice to be slapped across the face when you were 18 years of age?

Regardless, if it was... it has no bearing on how things are looked upon in THESE times. That's one of the great things about being human. We can adapt and CHANGE for the better.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

When you grow up where a spanking is not only appropriate, it is considered the only right way to discipline a child, you have a different outlook.

I think older people here will be more accepting than the much younger members.

I am not a young man by any stretch of imagination, and I still understand that slapping someone accomplishes nothing. If you don't like how someone is speaking to you, speak to them. If they will not listen, this is no child, so do not welcome her into your home. You don't strike people unless it is in self defense, or if you are spanking a kid. I don't agree with the spanking, but it's accepted practice and I'm not bringing that debate here. Two adults have no place striking one another, even if the granddaughter is a miserable wretch. Age should bring wisdom, compassion, and resolve: Wisdom to know what is right and effective, compassion for others, and the resolve to do the harder thing and NOT vent your anger with a blow.

 

[rootX]

Granddaughter or not, you cannot slap another adult across the face because you don't like what they say. To my knowledge, blood relation doesn't change the legal status of battery.

*fish slaps Jack21222*

 

[zomgwtf]

I am not a young man by any stretch of imagination, and I still understand that slapping someone accomplishes nothing. If you don't like how someone is speaking to you, speak to them. If they will not listen, this is no child, so do not welcome her into your home. You don't strike people unless it is in self defense, or if you are spanking a kid. I don't agree with the spanking, but it's accepted practice and I'm not bringing that debate here. Two adults have no place striking one another, even if the granddaughter is a miserable wretch. Age should bring wisdom, compassion, and resolve: Wisdom to know what is right and effective, compassion for others, and the resolve to do the harder thing and NOT vent your anger with a blow.

I agree completely with this statement. I don't think any of my grandparents or great grandparents (who have passed away but I did know for the majority of my life) would ever hit any other person across the face just because of words. (well excluding your typical female slap to the face scenario... likie YOU CHEATED ON ME!) The other grandparents that I know I do not think would ever hit any person across the face either. They DO however believe in spanking a child but definitely NOT slapping a person across the face.

The comparison some people are trying to make of this being the same as disciplinary action is absurd.

While the grandchild calling the police is questionable (as in I don't believe it was necessary) it doesn't change the fact the grandmother was way out of line.

 

[rhody]

Borek,

See what you did, you started a generational battle, I say, let's ban him... lol

Rhody...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

My mother once got frustrated and slapped me. I did not agree with the reason that she did so but I did not call the police on her and it did a good job of letting me know just how distressed she was over the situation.

 

[zomgwtf]

My mother once got frustrated and slapped me. I did not agree with the reason that she did so but I did not call the police on her and it did a good job of letting me know just how distressed she was over the situation.

Was it a 'PLEASE STOP DOING THIS TO ME ' emotional slap. Or was it a 'SHUT THE F*)& UP' type of controlling and dominating slap?

Did your mother apologize to you? Or did she say that she would slap you all over again the opportunity presented itself?

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Was it a 'PLEASE STOP DOING THIS TO ME ' emotional slap. Or was it a 'SHUT THE F*)& UP' type of controlling and dominating slap?

Did your mother apologize to you? Or did she say that she would slap you all over again the opportunity presented itself?

That is an important distinction; everyone has a breaking point, but to unapologetically slap someone is just wrong, unless you're a child, in which case it's wrong, but understandable. I can just imagine this, "don't sass me!" "*#&@@#&" "I said don't swear, it's wrong! SMACK" That doesn't make sense, but as TheStatutoryApe said, calling the police was something one should not do to your grandmother out of spite or revenge.

 

[Evo]

Look at old movies where a woman is ranting, (getting hysterical) she's slapped in the face to make her stop. How many movies have women slapping a man in the face? That just burns me up when they show young girls that it's ok to do such a thing just because the man has made some imagined slight.

None of us know just how out of control the situation had gotten for either the grandmother or granddaughter. I can see where if the grandmother had thought the granddaughter had gotten out of control, it might have seemed rational to "snap her out of it" the was it was done in back in the 40's and 50's.

Of course to someone that's been abused by their parents, I understand that it must bring back terrible memories.

I do remember one time my mother slapped me in the face. I think we were arguing because my brother had torn one of my favorite dresses, and since he was her boy, it must've been my fault. No my brother was bullying me, and she was supporting him. So out of no where, she slapped me and walked off. I was 10, and that was her right. The only time she ever did it though. Pissed me off, but a child did not hit back or talk back. So I kicked my closet door and broke it. Then I felt terrible that I had broken my own closet door and tried to fix it. First and last time I ever struck out at an inanimate object in anger.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Was it a 'PLEASE STOP DOING THIS TO ME ' emotional slap. Or was it a 'SHUT THE F*)& UP' type of controlling and dominating slap?

Did your mother apologize to you? Or did she say that she would slap you all over again the opportunity presented itself?

Both. We we arguing about whether or not I should be allowed to do something. She told me that if I disagreed with her again she was going to slap me. Me being me I disagreed with her again and she slapped me. She then broke down in tears. I do not remember her apologizing for having done it though she definitely expressed a sadness about it.

When people are defensive they are unlikely to apologize. Since I disagreed with my mother I never said I was sorry and so she had no reason to stop feeling defensive and apologize. In the case of the grandmother it is quite possible that had the granddaughter stopped and apologized for disrespecting her that the grandmother would have apologized. Instead she called the cops and had her thrown in jail. I can easily see why the grandmother would feel defensive and claim that she would do it all over again.

Its also possible that she's a mean old bag. Who knows.

 

[Zantra]

Seriously?

That's how it was done in her day. And how many of us think they could drop the "F" word in front of their grandmother and get away with it? My grandmother had 7 children, and every one of them is deathly afraid of her, even as adults with children of their own. They still tell stories of how my dad talked back to her one time and she hit him so hard his head bounced off the wall. So forget about the grandkids even arguing with her, let alone swearing at her. It was unthinkable.

I'm not saying that this makes it ok, but you have to accept that this was how their generation was. And it's clear that this immature child wasn't raised very well.

Stinks all around but both parties are at fault, and I'm sure granddaughters are slapped like that all the time, but it takes big ones to arrest your own grandmother over some hurt feelings. Smacking your granddaughter may be wrong, but arresting your grandma over it is unforgivable, IMHO. Somone's out of the will...

I'd hate to be at THAT family reunion next year

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Look at old movies where a woman is ranting, (getting hysterical) she's slapped in the face to make her stop. How many movies have women slapping a man in the face? That just burns me up when they show young girls that it's ok to do such a thing just because the man has made some imagined slight.

None of us know just how out of control the situation had gotten for either the grandmother or granddaughter. I can see where if the grandmother had thought the granddaughter had gotten out of control, it might have seemed rational to "snap her out of it" the was it was done in back in the 40's and 50's.

Of course to someone that's been abused by their parents, I understand that it must bring back terrible memories.

I do remember one time my mother slapped me in the face. I think we were arguing because my brother had torn one of my favorite dresses, and since he was her boy, it must've been my fault. No my brother was bullying me, and she was supporting him. So out of no where, she slapped me and walked off. I was 10, and that was her right. The only time she ever did it though. Pissed me off, but a child did not hit back or talk back. So I kicked my closet door and broke it. Then I felt terrible that I had broken my own closet door and tried to fix it. First and last time I ever struck out at an inanimate object in anger.

A grandmother stuck in her decade, her daughter or son has a kid who is stuck in hers? I am shocked and surprised! Evo, the root of the word Hysteria, and the meaning is female; hysteria as it was thought of then was nonsense. Slapping someone may get their attention, but maybe if the grandmother had said, "If you say **** in my presence again, you get nothing from me, and we are done!" She could have laughed at the girl, mocked her grammar and I bet that would be more effective. Anything, but hitting her, and she would "do it again". My maternal grandparents were not young at the turn of the 20th century, and they never saw fit to hit their children. They had three, and their only son turned out to be gay, and even then they adjusted although they were never really happy about it. The only problems you should solve with violence, are inherently violent situations, and then you need to be careful for your own sake.

What does it say that being struck in the face caused you to break your door, something you had never done before or since? She was angry and frustrated, took it out on you, and then you were angry and frustrated and took it out on the door. Is it so hard to imagine a childhood of that leading to you taking it out on your kids if you were not so bright, or understanding? If you think little girls and boys learn from movies and shows with slaps, wouldn't parents and grandparents have more of an effect, and be far more responsible?

I am still not saying this girl was right in calling the police officers, that is madness or cruelty, but at least it was LEGAL. "I am old" is not an excuse to break the law, and as repugnant as taking this lady into custody is, she took a risk when she struck another adult. I have to ask, who are these sweet old people who don't swear? I grant, they do not swear in every other word, but I know more people of that generation who at least tolerate bad language.

Zantra, generations in what country, that is a convenient way to pretend that this was in any way not purely wrong. There are reasons, but not excuses for striking someone in anger. Fear is not respect, and zomgwtf is right, if a lifetime doesn't help you grow and mature, you've wasted it. Grandma should have dropped her from the will, or kicked her out of her presence, and all of those things before the slap. The kid should experience endless shame for disrespect of her grandmother, and having her incarcerated.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Back in her day, you respected your elders and didn't speak that way around them. Why? Because you got slapped. Now the law disallows it, so the children run wild.

 

[Zantra]

I'm talking about the generation where children were seen and not heard, and did not speak unless spoken to. And the thinking was that they (children ) didn't have anything worthwile to contribute to the conversation. It was also the the geeration where swearing was never acceptable in polite company and only the lowest of the low of society used that kind of lanuage. Her granddaughter's generation is more accepting of that type of language. Some might even think it's "funny" to speak that way. It's been over-used so much that it's lost its impact to them. they've become desensitized to its impact on other people, and it becomes just another word to them.

We're not talking moralistic right or wrong, we're talking about commonly accepted practices of generations of people. what's right in my mind isn't right in another generation's mind. But There's a higher moral imperative of respect towards your elders that I think SHOULD be imparted to EVERY generation regardless of which one you're from. They've earned the right to be respected, and disrespecting them knowingly is wrong, and I think that trascends everything else. And why?

Becuase the law doesn't live in that house with grandma and granddaughter

 

[IcedEcliptic]

I'm talking about the generation where children were seen and not heard, and did not speak unless spoken to. And the thinking was that they (children ) didn't have anything worthwile to contribute to the conversation. It was also the the geeration where swearing was never acceptable in polite company and only the lowest of the low of society used that kind of lanuage. Her granddaughter's generation is more accepting of that type of language. Some might even think it's "funny" to speak that way. It's been over-used so much that it's lost its impact to them. they've become desensitized to its impact on other people, and it becomes just another word to them.

We're not talking moralistic right or wrong, we're talking about commonly accepted practices of generations of people. what's right in my mind isn't right in another generation's mind. But There's a higher moral imperative of respect towards your elders that I think SHOULD be imparted to EVERY generation regardless of which one you're from. They've earned the right to be respected, and disrespecting them knowingly is wrong, and I think that trascends everything else. And why?

Becuase the law doesn't live in that house with grandma and granddaughter

Which generation in what country? Plenty in this generation think that beating someone for perceived disrespect is acceptable, and many from other generations never struck a soul. This generational argument is not sound. When we talk about violence, and in the case of the granddaughter, massive disrespect and overreaction by calling the police, we see two people acting like angry children. That is a moral issue, on both sides. For respect, it is always earned, and never given, you TOLERATE your elders, but you may not respect them.

This granddaughter should have tolerated this behavior, and left. The grandmother should have earned that respect by using words or actions other than striking out, or used her rights to demand the woman leave her home. If the granddaughter didn't, then granny can call the police!

Leroyjenkens: You're describing fear, not respect.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Leroyjenkens: You're describing fear, not respect.

Whatever works. Those kids behaved.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

She could have laughed at the girl, mocked her grammar and I bet that would be more effective.
...
Grandma should have dropped her from the will, or kicked her out of her presence, and all of those things before the slap.

Apparently ridicule and disowning are preferable to a slap? We're not talking about a punch here. We're not even talking about getting hit with a switch or a belt. I've been slapped by friends in jest and have even had women slap me because they think its funny to slap men about. The slap itself was never a big deal. A slap is usually less a violent abuse than a power play. There are certainly people who slap for violent effect but that is obviously not what occurred here. Grandma was obviously trying to impress upon the granddaughter that she was the one in charge. It was obviously not a very effective tactic and better could have been come up with but personally I find a slap less disrespectful and hurtful than ridicule.

Leroyjenkens: You're describing fear, not respect.

I have never been cowed into fear by being struck. Perhaps some people are, I do not know. Personally it just makes me mad. The only people I have ever met that have been fearful of one simple slap or strike are people who have been severely beaten in their past. Granddaughter did not seem very cowed either. She was apparently clear headed enough to find her revenge.

 

[Norman.Galois]

I would kick her out of the house. No need to slap.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Apparently ridicule and disowning are preferable to a slap? We're not talking about a punch here. We're not even talking about getting hit with a switch or a belt. I've been slapped by friends in jest and have even had women slap me because they think its funny to slap men about. The slap itself was never a big deal. A slap is usually less a violent abuse than a power play. There are certainly people who slap for violent effect but that is obviously not what occurred here. Grandma was obviously trying to impress upon the granddaughter that she was the one in charge. It was obviously not a very effective tactic and better could have been come up with but personally I find a slap less disrespectful and hurtful than ridicule.

I am saying that if the granddaughter was unwilling to change her language in front of her grandmother, then the grandmother had many options including making her leave her home when she spoke that way, as Norman.Galois says. If that continues over time, then maybe you do ratchet the process up, but you still don't have the right to hit people. She also backhanded the woman, which is not a "little slap", and this wasn't in jest. I have nothing against people sparring, or agreeing to mutual combat. This is different, and let's not pretend it's the same thing. You break the law, and you take your chances.

I have never been cowed into fear by being struck. Perhaps some people are, I do not know. Personally it just makes me mad. The only people I have ever met that have been fearful of one simple slap or strike are people who have been severely beaten in their past. Granddaughter did not seem very cowed either. She was apparently clear headed enough to find her revenge.

Striking at someone's face is a basic scare tactic because of psychological impact, it is why in knife fighting one strikes with the off-hand with a feint to the face, causing a blink reaction, then strike with the knife hand. Clearly the woman had nothing to fear from her grandmother, if she had the time to get away and call the police, and so she should have had some care and love for her grandmother and NOT call the police! Slapping covers a big category, yes? It is a little smack on the back of the head to which I do not object to among friends, but it can be a backhand to the face.

If you have never been "cowed into fear" is not uncommon, as Evo said being struck made her so angry she broke her door. I'm a very strong man, and always have been so I am careful, but outside of a bar in St. Petersburg a young man tried to start a fight with me. I tried everything including walking away, but when he struck me, I tried to disengage, but he was drunk and angry. I was forced to apply an arm-lock and ended dislocating his shoulder and breaking his arm in three places. I am not proud of what I did, but if someone chooses to engage in a fight, and I cannot escape it I will fight. He was no match for me, but I still felt a mixture of anger, fear, outrage, and disappointment that I had to do this to someone.

Violence should be used in defense of the self, and of others in the last resort. That moment of last resort is conditional of course, but anytime you are violent when you don't need to be, you are hurting yourself as well as others. That anger you talk about is a like a poison, and this old woman should have learned this in her life. Gandi freed a nation without violence, and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. with civil rights; this granny couldn't keep her granddaughter from cursing without a smack? She doesn't deserve jail, but she doesn't deserve respect anymore either.

 

[leroyjenkens]

I don't think a backhand is a slap at all. There's padding on your palm, but a backhand is all bone. That's no slap.

Striking at someone's face is a basic scare tactic because of psychological impact, it is why in knife fighting one strikes with the off-hand with a feint to the face, causing a blink reaction, then strike with the knife hand.

You're just a jack of all trades. You know about knife fighting too.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

I don't think a backhand is a slap at all. There's padding on your palm, but a backhand is all bone. That's no slap.

What is "backhand"? It is short for "Backhanded slap". Slap is open hand, punch is closed fist. This granny used the back of her hand, as it said in the article.

You're just a jack of all trades. You know about knife fighting too.

"A jack of all trades, and a master of none," is that it? If it isn't clear I spent time serving in my home country's military, does that help you understand? Now please stop trying to drag a fight from a locked thread into this one, I am not going to help you kill this thread as well.

 

[Evo]

Sounds more like the Grandmother popped her in the mouth rather than a slap across the face.

What about the tactic of washing a childs mouth out with soap? I think that's terrible, but it was common.

My mother-in-law told me that I paid too much attention to my children. She said that she didn't let her kids rule her life. After brakfast, she would lock them in their rooms so she could do want she wanted to do around the house without having to deal with them. She said that sometimes they would cry and scream for hours. She'd either run the vacuum or turn up the radio to drown them out. Now, that's child abuse, it was considered ok back then.

 

[leroyjenkens]

What is "backhand"? It is short for "Backhanded slap". Slap is open hand, punch is closed fist. This granny used the back of her hand, as it said in the article.

I said I don't consider it a slap because it's the back of your hand. You're using the bone. It's as much of a slap as kicking someone in the face.

"A jack of all trades, and a master of none," is that it? If it isn't clear I spent time serving in my home country's military, does that help you understand? Now please stop trying to drag a fight from a locked thread into this one, I am not going to help you kill this thread as well.

You used a knife fighting strategy to prove your point. Have you been in a knife fight? You also mentioned how you broke someone's arm in 3 places. Did you follow them to the hospital? How did you find out exactly what happened to his arm?
Why do you keep calling everything a fight? No one can disagree with you or else they're trying to fight? You get defensive way too fast.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Sounds more like the Grandmother popped her in the mouth rather than a slap across the face.

What about the tactic of washing a childs mouth out with soap? I think that's terrible, but it was common.

My mother-in-law told me that I paid too much attention to my children. She said that she didn't let her kids rule her life. After brakfast, she would lock them in their rooms so she could do want she wanted to do around the house without having to deal with them. She said that sometimes they would cry and scream for hours. She'd either run the vacuum or turn up the radio to drown them out. Now, that's child abuse, it was considered ok back then.

Washing the mouth with soap is bound to make a child very angry, so it seems less effective to me, than other means. I think too, that most kids would fight against this, so the threat of violence, or force is usually needed to do it. Let us be very realistic, children are at the mercy of their parents when they are young. I don't believe that spanking is child abuse, but I don't think it's a good idea or effective. Locking children away is psychological torture, and I would rather be spanked if I had a choice. When you hold a child's life and welfare in your heart and hands, you know them the best, what they love and want, and what they fear and hate. Children need so many things, that withholding them can be effective punishment. In the absence of respect and understanding, you get a semblance of obedience, not the real thing.

If you are hysterical and screaming at a police officer, they can detain you, and cuff you. They can also let it wash over them without caring, knowing that the person's words have no power. I saw a funny video of a man who cursed and screamed at the officer for seeding, and he tore the ticket and threw it out the window. The officer calmly said, "Sir, you're going to have to get out and pick that up, or I'm going to cite you for littering." That is so brilliant, but what would dragging him out of the car accomplish? That does not teach, that is just cathartic for the officer. I bet you dollars to donuts that the speeding man learned a lesson that day; he could huff and puff, but the house of the officer remained standing. The speeder is humiliated and picking up his mess.

You teach people to respect you by BEING respectable, firm, and consistent. I do not respect people who resort to violence when it is not necessary, but just EASY. Most people here keep saying that being hit makes them angry, so what does that say? I maintain that anger is a poison, and violence is the means of transmission. You let a kid scream and cry and swear and you stand there, not caring, then repeat your demand. Rinse and repeat. That has a profound effect, and you will get respect because you did not appear to lose control and contradict ethics. What if granny said, "shut the **** up dear, and learn how speak English, or don't come here with that mouth," I bet that works! Now that younger woman will not respect her at all.

 

[Pengwuino]

Regardless, if it was... it has no bearing on how things are looked upon in THESE times. That's one of the great things about being human. We can adapt and CHANGE for the better.

Since when? Sure we CAN, but do we? No. You can't expect people to see something as proper for 50 years and then oops, "times change, deal with it".

As for the incident, I agree, neither the grandmother or the child are at fault here. Except the child. It's entirely that whiny brat's fault.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

I said I don't consider it a slap because it's the back of your hand. You're using the bone. It's as much of a slap as kicking someone in the face.

You used a knife fighting strategy to prove your point. Have you been in a knife fight? You also mentioned how you broke someone's arm in 3 places. Did you follow them to the hospital? How did you find out exactly what happened to his arm?
Why do you keep calling everything a fight? No one can disagree with you or else they're trying to fight? You get defensive way too fast.

To the first, consider it what you want, it is still defined as a slap. I have been kicked in the leg, and stomach, and arms, and I can say it is nothing like a backhand at all. A kick is the strongest thing a person may exert without leveraging moves of the joints and arms.

To the second, why would I need to be in a knife fight? I've never been in one outside of sparring and training (rubber knives, and rattan and ironwood bastones), that is why soldiers have guns.

To the third, I was very nearly arrested, until the man's friend's spoke to the police and explained that their FRIEND was out of control. I did go to the hospital to be checked, and for sutures of my lip, but he was in no danger from what I did, so I asked about him and left. The rest does not warrant a response.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Since when? Sure we CAN, but do we? No. You can't expect people to see something as proper for 50 years and then oops, "times change, deal with it".

As for the incident, I agree, neither the grandmother or the child are at fault here. Except the child. It's entirely that whiny brat's fault.

Does that apply to cannibalism (funeral rituals in Papua New Guinea), sexual exploitation of what is now underage children, child labor, bride-burnings, who gets to vote, civil rights, and more? Your argument was used by everyone who wants things to be the same, and I wonder if you should research the history of child labor especially. Times change, deal with it and flourish, or don't. The latter has consequences.

 

[leroyjenkens]

To the first, consider it what you want, it is still defined as a slap. I have been kicked in the leg, and stomach, and arms, and I can say it is nothing like a backhand at all.

The reason I compared them was because a slap is with an open hand. A kick is similar. It's just harder. Just like a back hand.

The rest does not warrant a response.

Calling it a fight is demeaning. We can discuss all day, but it seems like when you start to get upset and frustrated, it's the other person's fault for turning it into a fight. It's not my fault you have a short fuse.

 

[Evo]

We've beaten this thread to death. Locked.