E-Cigarettes, being hailed as the smoker's smart choice

[Ivan Seeking]

E Cigarettes, Electronic Cigarettes
Being hailed as the smoker's smart choice, the decision is easy to become an instant modern smoker. Because they are absent thousands of additives and chemicals when compared to tobacco cigarettes, the new wave of e-cigarettes are more cost effective and more convenient than traditional cigarettes. Make the smart choice, without putting yourself or loved ones in the danger zone of tobacco based cigarettes...

http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/

 

[GeorginaS]

What's the question?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Are they safe? Do they work? Is this better than smoking regular cigarettes? Are the claims made, factual?

Do we have any smokers who have tried these? If so, what did you think?

 

[Doug Huffman]

Nicotine itself and in pharmaceutical doses is not particularly hazardous. Cigarettes 'toxicity' is from the combustion by-products.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

My computer is playing up and I don't see the link, but think some friends use those, but are still compelled to use them out-doors.

 

[Newai]

Did you review the FDA study? They link to it at the bottom of this page:
http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/news/5/FDA-Study-Proves-E%252dCigarettes-Are-Safer-Than-Tobacco-Cigarettes.html

Direct link to the pub:
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/ScienceResearch/UCM173250.pdf

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Here is a recent article from CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/08/e.cigarette/

 

[Burnsys]

Here is a recent article from CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/08/e.cigarette/

Just take a look at all the comments in the article!

 

[Moonbear]

I guess there are two important issues.

First, is the vapor they produce really free of nicotine and other harmful smoke substances so that the users of these are avoiding subjecting others to second-hand smoke.

Second, especially in light of the CNN article suggesting they aren't delivering the same amount of nicotine as a cigarette, is whether the people using them are sufficiently able to convince themselves that they feel enough like holding a cigarette to help them break their habit. There are plenty of ex-smokers who will report that a hard thing to give up was having something to hold in their hand or put in their mouth even after they're weaned from the nicotine.

 

[chayced]

I switched to electronic cigarettes and am very happy. The comment that they don't deliver nicotine is just plain false. Nicotine liquid comes in varied strengths and it is quite easy to tell the difference between an 18 mg liquid and a 0mg liquid. Now, is it the same amount of nicotine as a cigarette? I don't know, but it is certainly enough to satisfy my cravings.

As to the safety aspect, yes the FDA did find several carcinogens in the nicotine liquid they tested, but any nicotine from tobacco is going to also contain trace amounts of the other carcinogens in tobacco. This is the same as any other nicotine product such as gum or the patch.The FDA did also find 1% Diethylene glycol in one of the cartridges sampled. Call it a quality control issue, these things are made in china. Also considering the largest e-cigarette cartridges contain about 1ml liquid and probable lethal dose is .5-5g/kg, the amount is trivial.

In conclusion I have seen nothing showing electronic cigarettes to be worse than the real alternative, and have been quite happy with my health improvements since switching. I just wish the misinformation about them would end. I get tired of hearing that they are made with antifreeze.

 

[Pythagorean]

I am a quitter of 5-6 months. E-cigarettes (well, any substitution really) just didn't do it for me. It kept me addicted is what it did. E-cigarettes scared me though...

I guess there are two important issues.

First, is the vapor they produce really free of nicotine and other harmful smoke substances so that the users of these are avoiding subjecting others to second-hand smoke.

No, I don't think the vapor is free of nicotine (I don't know how it could be). It doesn't go as far as cigarettes before condensing though. Is that really a good thing, though? It doesn't just disappear from the area, it just becomes invisible faster. Besides, something about inhaling glycol vapors reminds me of anti-freeze. Terrible idea.

Second, especially in light of the CNN article suggesting they aren't delivering the same amount of nicotine as a cigarette, is whether the people using them are sufficiently able to convince themselves that they feel enough like holding a cigarette to help them break their habit. There are plenty of ex-smokers who will report that a hard thing to give up was having something to hold in their hand or put in their mouth even after they're weaned from the nicotine.

I think all this does is drag out the habit and addiction. I'm in the "Easy Quit Method" school of thought (it's a book by Allen Car). No substitutions, no weening, no loose associations hanging around to keep you in your comfort zone. You have to step out, be adventurous, and change your habits, essentially changing a part of who you are.

As far as I'm concerned, E-cigarettes are just another addictive product on the market.

 

[AlephZero]

Are they safe?

I guess that depends how you define "safe". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-18728303

 

[leroyjenkens]

I had some friends who switched to the E-cigarettes, and then eventually switched back to normal cigarettes because they weren't satisfying their craving for nicotine, or something like that. Maybe that was just an excuse for being too lazy to recharge the battery, or whatever you have to do with these things.

I don't see how anyone could smoke anyway. If you want to quit, then do it cold turkey. Sure, it's not pleasant, but that's life. If you want to get anything done, you have to endure some unpleasant moments.

 

[dlgoff]

If you want to quit, then do it cold turkey. Sure, it's not pleasant, but that's life. If you want to get anything done, you have to endure some unpleasant moments.

That's how I did it after 30 years. The funny thing is, after I made up my mind, it was easy.

 

[Chronos]

As a reformed smoker, I can definitely relate to the 'what to do with your hands?' thing. Giving up the ritual of smoking was more stressful than the nicotine fix

 

[coalago]

so many smokers..

 

[Pythagorean]

I'm two years smoke free now!

 

[coalago]

congratulations!

 

[dlgoff]

I'm two years smoke free now!

Just because it's been two years, you're still not truly free. It would only take one cigarette for me to get hooked again and it's been >10 years since I stopped.

 

[Pythagorean]

I feel truly free; I don't buy into that AA propaganda really. I don't even have the slightest of urges. I did smoke a cigar for new years and it was enjoyable, but it didn't make me want to smoke again.

 

[Traz 0]

Just because it's been two years, you're still not truly free. It would only take one cigarette for me to get hooked again and it's been >10 years since I stopped.

Some years back, I quit smoking. After about a year, I was still experiencing strong cravings. I could handle that, for any finite period, but forever? I doubted my ability to fight those urges for the rest of my life.

I asked a coworker, who had been cigarette-free for seven years, just when I could expect some relief. He told me, basically, never. He said that he missed smoking every day of his life.

So, and here is why I'll go to hell, if such a preposterous place exists. I pressed him. "Well, how do you do it? How do you stay strong, knowing that you'll always have to maintain your guard? I'm going on a year, and I know it's going to get the best of me eventually. How do you do it?"

I guess he wasn't terribly introspective, because he said, "Gosh, I don't know. I never really thought of it like that. When you put it that way, it seems impossible ..."

Two weeks later, he was a smoker again.

On the other hand, I have a friend who smoked for 20 years, and just quit, no problem. He didn't even gain weight, the sonovabitch. He smokes two or three cigarettes a year, on very special occasions, and doesn't miss them at all.

I think different people, are, well, different. E-cigs might not be for everyone, but I'm sure they help some.

 

[Chronos]

Your mind is the biggest obstacle to giving up any addiction. Physical addiction only lasts about 72 hours, after that the battle is psychological. You have an incredible number of triggers to overcome - coffee, alcohol, conversation, stress, etc. Any former smoker will tell you the desire to smoke never entirely goes away.

 

[Student100]

Your mind is the biggest obstacle to giving up any addiction. Physical addiction only lasts about 72 hours, after that the battle is psychological. You have an incredible number of triggers to overcome - coffee, alcohol, conversation, stress, etc. Any former smoker will tell you the desire to smoke never entirely goes away.

I think the biggest part I'd miss would be all the smoke deck gossip.

I've smoked for going on 14 or 15 years. I've never wanted to quit, something has to kill me. "You could live to a 100 by not doing all the things that'd make you want to live to 100"

I've tried ECigs, they work. I did it for about a month without feeling a need for a cig at all. My biggest complaint was battery life, and was ultimately the reason why I stopped; however, I've seen that they have flashlight style batteries now, so maybe that part of the ecig would be better. Actually, now that I think about it, when I switched back to normal cigarettes I didn’t like the taste and burning for the first few, so maybe I even liked them better.

I would also like to see them regulated, or at least the liquid for impurities. I think they could be great for curbing smoking in those who want to reduce their smoking habit.

 

[Pythagorean]

"Electronic cigarettes ‘don’t aid quitting’, study says...
But some researchers argue that it is too early to dismiss potential health benefits."

http://www.nature.com/news/electronic-cigarettes-don-t-aid-quitting-study-says-1.14918

 

[Evo]

I find it really sad that people just replace one addiction with another. People that say "oh, I quit smoking, now I'm vaping!". You're still smoking, maybe something a bit less harmful, but you still have no will power to stop. Just admit that you can't stop, *that* I understand. My mom quit a 3 pack a day smoking habit cold turkey and never smoked again. I really admire her will power. I have the greatest respect for people that can stop putting these things into their mouth, I can't imagine how difficult it must be.

 

[Pythagorean]

Cold Turkey was the only way that worked for me. I tried substitution with patches and gum the first couple attempts and it just dragged out the feeling of loss.

 

[Evo]

Cold Turkey was the only way that worked for me. I tried substitution with patches and gum the first couple attempts and it just dragged out the feeling of loss.

Congratulations! I know it takes a lot of will power to do what you did.

 

[Ripley]

I quit (cold turkey) then started almost 10 years later after a night out with friends who smoke and a stressful time at work. I think I'll never have the non-smokers mindset, the habit is too deeply ingrained.

One of the biggest issues with the e-cigarettes is the users smoking them indoors. Some are ok to smoke inside however anything containing nicotine is illegal to smoke indoors in public places in the UK. It got out of hand in our workplace and posters have now been put up prohibiting any use. Most of the staff who had started using these e-cigarettes have now gone back to regular ones. One girl told me that "if you are going to be made to go out in the cold and wet you may as well have the real thing".

 

[lendav_rott]

some legends say that e cigs are more detrimental than regular ones.

 

[Ripley]

some legends say that e cigs are more detrimental than regular ones.

Legends? Experts?

 

[MBob]

Your mind is the biggest obstacle to giving up any addiction. Physical addiction only lasts about 72 hours, after that the battle is psychological. You have an incredible number of triggers to overcome - coffee, alcohol, conversation, stress, etc. Any former smoker will tell you the desire to smoke never entirely goes away.

Most of what you said is true but I disagree with part of it. As a former pack a day smoker for three decades, including daily inhaled cigars for the last several years, I went cold turkey. My lungs seemed to boil, it felt like something was crawling around in there, for I don't remember how long, but it was longer than three days.
I can now tolerate smoke, I don't like it but I can tolerate it. I avoid it as much as I can, not because I fear being re-addicted but rather because it's unpleasant to say the least, and not good for my health.
I did not and do not miss holding cigarettes or putting things in my mouth. So everyone has a different set of problems to deal with in regard to quitting and I'm lucky I never had to deal with that.
The part I disagree with is that I'm a former addicted smoker and I have absolutely no desire to smoke. None whatsoever. So I think that part of your statement should be revised.

 

[Chronos]

I still have urges, even after 10 years without a cig. I view it as a choice. I choose not to smoke. The urge is merely a nuisance. It lessens over time, but, is never entirely conquered - IMO.

 

[MBob]

Please help me out, here, Chronos. I read your last statement and was saying to myself, "OK, that's him, I've had a different experience, no problem." But then I got to your "IMO" which, I guess in the, to me silly, world of texting, means "in my opinion" and that tells me that you think I'm either not the telling the truth or that I really am insensitive to what my body is trying to tell me. And that must apply to Pythagorean too because, as he said, he doesn't feel the urge anymore either. So which is it? Are we wrong about ourselves or are you just projecting your experience onto other people and calling it "universal" as in "any former smoker", despite evidence that indicates otherwise? Or did I just misunderstand you, in which case I apologize in advance. I'm just not certain what you're saying, so I'd appreciate some clarification. Thanks.

Quitting isn't easy, we all agree on that. I think we all have rather different experiences with it, and I'm sorry that you still feel urges. I swear, I don't. Apparently Pythagorean doesn't either. I can point to several friends of mine who used to smoke, some quite heavily, and they don't experience any desire to start up again, there's no longing in them. How do I know? We've talked about it. So I think for some people it is possible to quit smoking and, years down the road, have no urge or desire at all to go back to it. In fact, from my experience, that's true for most people who successfully quit.

 

[Chronos]

Your mind is your biggest enemy. It's a matter of foregoing immediate gratification for a long term goal.

 

[AlephZero]

So which is it? Are we wrong about ourselves or are you just projecting your experience onto other people and calling it "universal" as in "any former smoker", despite evidence that indicates otherwise?

I think you are reading too much into the "IMO". Outside of the general discussion forums on PF, the plural of "personal anecdote" is not "data". If you want to assert something that is not widely known (e.g. something not included in standard textbooks on the topic) is "true", you need to back up your assertion with a reference to an acceptable source, such as a paper published in a peer reviewed journal.

The general discussion forums are not so strict about that, but people who have been PF members for a long time often get into the habit of labeling their personal opinions as such with "IMO". It doesn't mean they think their personal opinion carries more weight than anybody else's.

 

[Pythagorean]

It also depends on how you define urge. There's always going to be a physiological response. But do you have the urge to pick up a cigarette and light it? I do get physical urges, but my mental reaction is repulsion.

All my bandmates smoke so I'm constantly being exposed to secondhand smoke, but I have no desire to pick up a cigarette and light it. It makes me think of cotton mouth and soar throats and that horrible musky stench.

 

[StatGuy2000]

I have never smoked in my life, but am always amazed at how so often we hear about giving up smoking as being about "will power", and yet you don't hear similar things about giving up cocaine, heroin, crystal meth, oxycontin, or any of the other "hard drugs". I find this odd given that nicotine has been demonstrated to be physically addictive and addiction should best be thought of as an illness.

 

[Pythagorean]

I still hear people associating willpower with hard drugs. But I don't see the medical perspective as contradicting with willpower. I just think, similar to how we don't shame people for having a weak immune system, we shouldn't shame people for having weak inhibition circuits because it's biological. So I agree, there are ways you can raise/abuse/teach children that will make them more or less likely to be able to inhibit impulsive and compulsive behaviors. So, to some degree, it's on the parents/society how people turn out.

 

[Borg]

Your mind is the biggest obstacle to giving up any addiction. Physical addiction only lasts about 72 hours, after that the battle is psychological. You have an incredible number of triggers to overcome - coffee, alcohol, conversation, stress, etc. Any former smoker will tell you the desire to smoke never entirely goes away.

I smoked for 16 years and quit 17 years ago. I agree that the psychological part is the hardest. About a week after I quit, I got in my car, drove to the store and was about to buy a pack before I realized what I was doing. However, I no longer have any desire to smoke.

 

[lisab]

My experience: I smoked as a teenager for about 5 years. I turned 50 a few months ago. I still get cravings regularly.

My strongest trigger: the smell of a freshly-struck match. And believe it or not, I will also swoon if I'm in stop-and-go traffic and the person in the car in front of me is smoking with their window down. Yes, I can smell it, and it can bring on a strong craving.

I realize these cravings are just part of my life now yet I will never smoke again, full stop.

 

[lendav_rott]

I smoked for about 5 years, prettty hardcore. Quit 3 months ago, haven't even had an itch for one. It was weird, at one point I lit one up, smoked some of it, then looked at it and threw it away, thought to myself "Ok, enough".

Although I don't agree with ecigs being any better than them regular ones. Yes, ok, no tar, but it's better to quit altogether and take up something like cycling :D

 

[B. Elliott]

Resurrecting and old thread, but just came across this study.Comparison of select analytes in aerosol from e-cigarettes with smoke from conventional cigarettes and with ambient air

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0273230014002505

Highlights

•The e-cigarettes contained and delivered mostly glycerin and/or PG and water.
• Aerosol nicotine content was 85% lower than the cigarette smoke nicotine.
• The levels of HPHCs in aerosol were consistent with the air blanks (<2 μg/puff).
• Mainstream cigarette smoke HPHCs (∼3000 μg/puff) were 1500 times higher than e-cigarette HPHCs.
• No significant contribution of tested HPHC classes was found for the e-cigarettes.

 

[Steyn11]

Electronic cigarettes, marketed as safer than regular cigarettes, deliver a cocktail of toxic chemicals including carcinogens into the lungs.

 

[lisab]

Electronic cigarettes, marketed as safer than regular cigarettes, deliver a cocktail of toxic chemicals including carcinogens into the lungs.

Please provide a source.

Recreational inhalation of anything but ambient air probably isn't smart. And certainly, e-cigs can have deleterious effects on health. The question is, are they more harmful than conventional cigarettes.

 

[B. Elliott]

Lots of misinformation is being spread about e-cigarettes without any evidence to support the claims. The following is another actual legitimate study.http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/23/2/133

Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electronic cigarettes
Abstract
Significance Electronic cigarettes, also known as e-cigarettes, are devices designed to imitate regular cigarettes and deliver nicotine via inhalation without combusting tobacco. They are purported to deliver nicotine without other toxicants and to be a safer alternative to regular cigarettes. However, little toxicity testing has been performed to evaluate the chemical nature of vapour generated from e–cigarettes. The aim of this study was to screen e-cigarette vapours for content of four groups of potentially toxic and carcinogenic compounds: carbonyls, volatile organic compounds, nitrosamines and heavy metals.

Results We found that the e-cigarette vapours contained some toxic substances. The levels of the toxicants were 9–450 times lower than in cigarette smoke and were, in many cases, comparable with trace amounts found in the reference product.

Conclusions Our findings are consistent with the idea that substituting tobacco cigarettes with e-cigarettes may substantially reduce exposure to selected tobacco-specific toxicants. E-cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy among smokers unwilling to quit, warrants further study.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

E-cigarette vapors, flavorings, trigger lung cell stress
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150206174840.htm

 

[B. Elliott]

Interesting, but as lisab mentioned, does that make it more harmful than regular cigarettes?