Easy Question About the Number Operator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the number operator in the context of fermionic systems, specifically examining expectation values in ground states of fermions. Participants explore the implications of operating with the number operator on states with different quantum numbers, such as momentum and spin, and the resulting outcomes.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that operating the number operator on the ground state ##\Psi_0## with different momentum indices (##c_k^{\dagger} c_l## for ##k \neq l##) results in zero, suggesting this might be obvious.
  • Another participant confirms this by explaining that the ground state can be expressed as a product of creation operators acting on the vacuum, leading to a factor of zero due to the anticommutation relation of fermionic operators.
  • A later post expresses appreciation for the cleverness of the argument presented, indicating a positive reception of the explanation.
  • Another question is raised regarding the expectation value of the number operator for spin-up particles acting on a ground state of spin-down particles, with uncertainty about whether the result is zero or if the operators can be manipulated outside the expectation value.
  • A subsequent reply asserts that the expectation value will also be zero due to similar anticommutation properties and emphasizes that operators cannot be pulled out of expectation values without considering their action on the state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the outcomes of the discussed operations leading to zero, but there is some uncertainty expressed regarding the manipulation of operators in expectation values, indicating that the discussion remains partially unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of confidence in their understanding of second quantization and the implications of operator algebra in fermionic systems, highlighting the need for further clarification on these concepts.

metapuff
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Suppose I have a system of fermions in the ground state ##\Psi_0##. If I operate on this state with the number operator, I get
[tex]\langle \Psi_0 | c_k^{\dagger} c_k | \Psi_0 \rangle = \frac{1}{e^{(\epsilon_k - \mu)\beta} + 1}[/tex]
which is, of course, the fermi distribution. What if I operate with ##c^{\dagger}_k c_l##, where ##k \neq l##? I.e, what is
[tex]\langle \Psi_0 | c_k^{\dagger} c_l | \Psi_0 \rangle?[/tex]
My hunch says that this is zero, but I'm not sure. This might be obvious.
 
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You can show that this is zero by writing out the ground state ##|\Psi_0\rangle## as a product of creation operators acting on the vacuum ##|0>##. Since ##\{c^\dagger_k,c_l\}=0## for ##k\neq l##, we can anticommute the ##c^\dagger_k## through to the ##c^\dagger_k## appearing in the product. Then we find a factor of ##(c^\dagger_k)^2=0##.
 
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Nice! That's really clever. This seems like a trick that I'll be using a lot. :)
 
Okay, another question. Let ##\Psi_{0,\downarrow}## be the ground state for spin down electrons (for example we could have a partially polarized electron gas, with ##\Psi_{0,\downarrow}## representing the filled fermi sphere for down-spin electrons). If I try to act on this with the number operator for spin up particles, like
[tex]\langle \Psi_{0,\downarrow} | c^{\dagger}_{\uparrow} c_{\uparrow} | \Psi_{0,\downarrow} \rangle[/tex]
do I get 0 (since there are no spin-up particles in the down-spin ground state), or can I just pull the spin-up operators out, and write
[tex]\langle \Psi_{0,\downarrow} | c^{\dagger}_{\uparrow} c_{\uparrow} | \Psi_{0,\downarrow} \rangle = c^{\dagger}_{\uparrow} c_{\uparrow}?[/tex]
Again, this might be obvious, but I don't have a lot of confidence with second quantization yet and am trying to build intuition. Thanks!
 
You will get zero because you can anticommute to get the expression

$$ c^\dagger_{k\uparrow} \prod_r^\mathcal{N} c^\dagger_{r\downarrow} c_{k\uparrow} | 0 \rangle.$$

Also, you generally can't pull operators out of an expectation value. If the expectation value you're writing down is physically sensible then the operator acts on the state that you're using to compute the expectation value.
 

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