EE Solving a circuit using KCL and KVL

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    Circuit Ee Kcl Kvl
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a circuit problem using Kirchhoff's Current Law (KCL) and Kirchhoff's Voltage Law (KVL). Participants are attempting to find the values of V0 and i0 in a circuit with specific components and configurations, expressing their uncertainties and challenges in applying the laws effectively.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in analyzing the circuit, particularly with the term i0/4, and requests a walkthrough of the problem.
  • Another participant suggests equating the 9A entering the top node to the three currents leaving it, proposing that the voltage across the 2Ω resistor provides an expression for V0.
  • A participant calculates that 9A equals (5/4)i, leading to i being 7.2A, and questions how to determine the current through the middle loop.
  • There is a discussion about the labeling of voltages and currents, with one participant noting that the labeling in the problem does not follow conventional standards, which could lead to confusion.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the direction of the current through the 8Ω resistor is defined by its voltage sign and suggests writing all currents with the correct direction.
  • A participant proposes that since the 8Ω element is in parallel with the 2Ω element and the i0/4 element, their voltages must be equal, leading to a derived expression for i0.
  • Questions arise regarding the determination of current direction through the 8Ω element and whether voltages can be set equal across non-voltage producing elements in parallel.
  • A later reply clarifies that current through a passive element flows from higher to lower potential, and all elements in parallel share the same voltage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and uncertainties regarding the application of KCL and KVL, the labeling conventions, and the relationships between currents and voltages in the circuit. No consensus is reached on the best approach to solve the problem or on the interpretation of certain aspects of the circuit.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential confusion due to unconventional labeling of voltages and currents, and there are unresolved questions about the assumptions regarding current directions and voltage relationships in the circuit.

MienTommy
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Homework Statement


Find V0 and i0.
Untitled.png


Homework Equations


Total current at each node is = 0.
Total voltage around each loop is = 0.

The Attempt at a Solution


I can't seem to be able to analyze this circuit. That i0/4 is really messing me up. I am unsure how to apply both KCL and KVL on this practice problem. I can solve other circuit problems that have at least two resistors through each loop, but this one doesn't contain two resistors through each loop. A walk-through through this problem would be nice.

20151225_200305.jpg
 
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You have 9A entering the top node, so equate this to the 3 currents leaving it.

The voltage across the 2Ω resistor convenently gives you an expression for vo .

http://www.imageshack.com/a/img109/4666/holly1756.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NascentOxygen said:
You have 9A entering the top node, so equate this to the 3 currents leaving it.

The voltage across the 2Ω resistor convenently gives you an expression for vo .

http://www.imageshack.com/a/img109/4666/holly1756.gif
I get: 9A = (5/4)i
Solving i = 7.2A

And how do you determine the current passing through the middle loop with two currents by each other?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MienTommy said:
I get: 9A = (5/4)i
Solving i = 7.2A

And how do you determine the current passing through the middle loop with two currents by each other?
There are 3 currents leaving the top node which add to 9A. They are io, io/4 and current through the 8Ω resistor, say i.
Can you write expression for i in terms of io?
Hint: voltage across the 2Ω resistor is vo.
 
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It is worth pointing out that the labelling in this problem runs somewhat contrary to convention. It is customary that where a voltage across an element is labelled ##v_o## then the current through that same element will be known as ##i_o## ; but such convention has not been followed in this figure, and---while not wrong---this could cause some confusion.

http://www.imageshack.com/a/img109/4666/holly1756.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The direction of 8Ω resistor is defined by its voltage sign. You can write all currents with the correct direction.
 
cnh1995 said:
There are 3 currents leaving the top node which add to 9A. They are io, io/4 and current through the 8Ω resistor, say i.
Can you write expression for i in terms of io?
Hint: voltage across the 2Ω resistor is vo.

Problem Solving
Ah I think I see it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Since the 8Ω element is in parallel with the 2Ω element and the i0/4 element, their voltages must equal each other.

So we can set the voltage of the 8Ω element equal to the 2Ω so : 2i0 = 8iv0
solving for iv0, we get iv0 = i0/4.

Adding up the currents leaving the node: i0/4 + i0/4 + i0 = 9A
We get i0 = 6A.

Since we know i0 now, we can solve for v0. So, v0 = i0/4 * 8Ω : giving us v0 = 12V.

Questions
1. How did we know the direction of the current passing through the 8Ω element?

2. This doesn't seem logical to me, but if we can set the voltages of elements equal to each other, can we set the voltage of the i0/4 varying current element equal to the voltage 8Ω element? Or are we only allowed to set voltage producing elements equal to each other when in parallel? Thus, the current element doesn't produce a voltage so it wouldn't be allowed.
 
Current through a passive element flows from its higher potential end to its lower potential end, so once the + and - signs for voltage are marked on an element this determines the direction you will consider current in that element to be flowing. (It will happen from time to time that this voltage or current turns out to be a negative quantity, this simply means that any initial assumption you made had the direction reversed. This is to be expected, as before you apply any maths it often is not obvious what the polarity will be.)

All elements in parallel share an identical voltage. There are no exceptions.
http://www.imageshack.com/a/img109/4666/holly1756.gif
 
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