Electric Potential in circuit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of electric potential in the context of circuit theory, specifically addressing the apparent contradictions between the electric potential formula and the behavior of points in a simple circuit model. Participants explore the implications of electric potential in relation to charge distribution and circuit behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the formula for electric potential and questions how it applies to points in a circuit where both points are neutral, yet there is a voltage difference.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on whether the formula represents voltage at a point or voltage due to a point charge.
  • A later reply confirms that the formula is for voltage at a point due to other point charges, suggesting that it does not apply directly in the circuit context due to the absence of solitary point charges.
  • It is noted that in circuits, there is a continuous distribution of surface charge along conductors, complicating the application of the electric potential formula.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the electric potential formula in circuit models. There is no consensus on how to reconcile the formula with the observed behavior in circuits.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in applying the electric potential formula due to the continuous charge distribution in circuits, which does not conform to the assumptions of point charges.

eyeweyew
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TL;DR
Electric potential at a point equation for circuit and net charge
I reviewed some of the fundamental physics and I looked back at the equation for Electric potential at a point p:
$$V(p) = k \sum_{i} {\frac {q_i} {r_i}}$$
where

- p is the point at which the potential is evaluated;
- ri is the distance between point p and point i at which there is a nonzero charge;
- qi is the charge at point i

and I still find it's kind of contradicting with the simple circuit model such as the one below. Both point a and point b should be neutral with no net charge so their electric field is 0 and the voltage is flat on the graph according to Gauss law. I understand the electric potential of point b is ε higher than that of point a (i.e. V(b)-V(a)=ε) means it takes ε work to move a +1 test charge from point a to point b along the circuit.

But according to Electric potential formula at a point, should that also imply there are higher positive net charge concentration around point b than point a so how can they both neutral with no net charge? Does that mean the equation for Electric potential at a point does not apply in a circuit model but if so, why?

electric_circuit_voltage_plots-001.png

image reference: https://tikz.net/electric_circuit_voltage_plots/
 
Last edited:
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Is that formula supposed to be the voltage at a point or the voltage due to a point charge? Read the surrounding text carefully
 
Dale said:
Is that formula supposed to be the voltage at a point or the voltage due to a point charge? Read the surrounding text carefully
It is voltage at a point due to other point charges. I edited my post to clarify it. Thanks!
 
eyeweyew said:
It is voltage at a point due to other point charges. I edited my post to clarify it. Thanks!
So that formula doesn’t really apply. There are no solitary point charges in that circuit. There is a continuous distribution of surface charge along all the conductors. That distribution doesn’t have a nice closed form expression.
 

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