Electromagnetic wave peaks don't travel through space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of electromagnetic waves, particularly in the context of their behavior in a microwave compared to other types of waves, such as water waves. Participants explore whether the peaks of electromagnetic waves travel through space or remain fixed, and how this relates to practical applications like heating food in a microwave.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that electromagnetic wave peaks do not travel through space and are fixed, using the example of food heating unevenly in a microwave based on wave amplitude.
  • Another participant counters this by comparing electromagnetic waves to sound waves, indicating that in free space, waves do travel and that all points experience varying field strengths.
  • A different participant notes that microwaves create standing waves due to their relatively large wavelength, leading to uneven heating, similar to sound waves in a confined space.
  • Some participants draw parallels between electromagnetic waves and other types of waves, such as those on a guitar string or ripples in a pond, emphasizing that both can exist as traveling or standing waves depending on the context.
  • A later reply challenges the initial claim by stating that if the peaks were fixed, technologies like radio transmitters and cell phones would not function, implying that electromagnetic waves do indeed travel through space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the peaks of electromagnetic waves travel through space or remain fixed. There is no consensus, as some argue for the fixed nature of peaks in specific contexts like microwaves, while others assert that electromagnetic waves do travel in general.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of wave behavior, particularly in confined spaces versus free space, and the implications of wave types on practical applications. Limitations in definitions and assumptions about wave behavior in different contexts are present but not resolved.

lenfromkits
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Electromagnetic wave peaks don't "travel" through space?

I'm just checking my understanding.

When a wave travels through water, you can see the peak of the wave move gradually through space.

But, it seems that an electromagnetic wave is different in that the peaks of the waves do NOT travel through space, but are instead fixed in space. For instance, by positioning food at different points in a microwave, you will find that different positions of food heat more or less depending on if the food resides where the amplitude of the wave is high.

If these waves moved 'through' space like with water, then it wouldn't matter where you position the food.

Am I correct in this understanding?
Thanks!
 
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The 'peaks' are the regions of strongest field, it's probably better to think of sound waves from a speaker than water wave peaks, you can picture the pressure waves traveling through air.
In free space the waves do travel and each point experience everything from he maximum power through to minimum.

Microwaves are a perculiar case, because the wavelength of the radiation is relatively large, enough that only a few of them 'fit' in the oven you get standing waves so as the waves reflect off the sides not every point gets the full range of power.
This is exactly like sound waves resonating in a musical instrument or even a water wave sloshing up the sides of a bath - the wave goes up and down the sides but doesn't travel across the surface of the bath
 


Electromagnetic waves in a microwave are standing waves similar to the vibrations on a guitar string, on the surface of water confined to a bathtub, or sound waves confined to the interior of a small room.

All of these kinds of waves can also exist as traveling waves, e.g. waves on a very long string or rope, ripples spreading out on the surface of pond, sound waves spreading through open air or a large room, or electromagnetic waves spreading out from a radio tower.
 


Of course this is wrong:
But, it seems that an electromagnetic wave is different in that the peaks of the waves do NOT travel through space, but are instead fixed in space.

as jtbell explains...

if the above were correct, radio transmitters, cell phones and radar, for example, would not work...
 

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