EM Force vs. Gravity: Modeling Spatio-Temporal Curvature

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the differences between the electromagnetic (EM) force and gravity in the context of modeling spatio-temporal curvature. Participants explore theoretical frameworks and principles that differentiate the two forces, particularly focusing on the equivalence principle and Kaluza-Klein theory.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the EM force cannot be modeled on spatio-temporal curvature like gravity because it does not obey the equivalence principle.
  • Another participant explains that different charge to mass ratios among charged objects lead to different behaviors in an EM field, contrasting this with gravity's behavior where all objects would remain together.
  • A later reply expresses gratitude for the explanation, indicating a positive reception of the technical details provided.
  • Another participant challenges the initial premise, stating that the EM force can be modeled using Kaluza-Klein theory.
  • A subsequent response clarifies that the curvature in Kaluza-Klein theory is not spatio-temporal, suggesting it does not directly address the original question posed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the modeling of the EM force in relation to gravity, with some asserting it cannot be done while others propose that it can through Kaluza-Klein theory. The discussion remains unresolved as different perspectives are presented without consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of spatio-temporal curvature and the specifics of Kaluza-Klein theory, which may affect the clarity of the arguments presented.

Ontophobe
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Why is it that the EM force can't be modeled on spatio-temporal curvature the way gravity can be?
 
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Because the EM force does not obey the equivalence principle. For example, suppose you have three objects, one with a charge of +1, one with a charge of zero, and one with a charge of -1. You start them all off at rest relative to each other at the same point in space in the same EM field. Because of their different charges--or more precisely, their different charge to mass ratios--they will not stay together.

In the case of gravity, by contrast, all three objects would stay together (we start them at the same point in space so tidal gravity won't separate them). Heuristically, this is because gravity acts on the "mass to mass ratio", not the charge to mass ratio, and the mass to mass ratio is the same for all objects. (Usually this is described as inertial mass being the same as gravitational mass.) But observationally, the key fact is that gravity obeys the equivalence principle, whereas the EM force does not.
 
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Thank you, thank, thank you. That made perfect sense to me. I'm scared to ask questions on this forum because people can be so mean. I really appreciate that you took the time to break it down for me. This encourages me to ask more questions in the future.
 
Ontophobe said:
Why is it that the EM force can't be modeled on spatio-temporal curvature the way gravity can be?

Yes, it can! See Kaluza-Klein theory.
 
haael said:
See Kaluza-Klein theory.

The curvature that models electromagnetism in Kaluza-Klein theory is not spatio-temporal; it's in a dimension other than the 4 spacetime dimensions. So it's not relevant to the OP's question.
 

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