Emergent Qualities Mapped to Atomic Properties

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between macroscopic properties of substances and their atomic properties. Participants explore whether there is a systematic mapping similar to the periodic table that can explain various physical characteristics, such as state of matter and mechanical properties, based on atomic structure and arrangement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the existence of a direct mapping between macroscopic properties and atomic properties, citing examples like carbon, which can form both diamond and graphite with vastly different properties despite being composed of the same atoms.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of atomic arrangement and bonding types in determining properties, suggesting that many substances are composed of multiple elements and that their arrangement significantly influences their characteristics.
  • Another participant notes that the mechanical properties of materials, such as ductility, are largely determined by the bulk crystal structure and the types of atomic bonds present, indicating that different bonding types lead to different mechanical behaviors.
  • There is a mention of the complexity involved in understanding material properties, including factors like crystal size, alignment, and defects, which further complicate the relationship between atomic and macroscopic properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that emergent qualities do not have a straightforward correlation to atomic properties, and multiple competing views remain regarding the influence of atomic arrangement and bonding on macroscopic characteristics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarification on terms like "substance" and the distinction between solid state physics and atomic/molecular physics, indicating that the discussion may be limited by varying definitions and assumptions about materials.

awcrowe
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Is there a mapping of macroscopic properties of a substance and its atomic properties?

We know that colour is associated with the electron shells.

What about other properties of matter like mercury liquid at room temp vs gold its neighbour on the chart a solid?

Is there a mapping like periodic table?
 
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awcrowe said:
Is there a mapping of macroscopic properties of a substance and its atomic properties?

We know that colour is associated with the electron shells.

What about other properties of matter like mercury liquid at room temp vs gold its neighbour on the chart a solid?

Is there a mapping like periodic table?

I will once again bring the example of carbon atoms here, and you can see why your connection regarding the macroscopic properties and the atomic properties do not usually work.

If I take carbon atoms, and arrange them in a certain way, I get diamond. If I arrange it in another way, I get graphite. If I don't tell you that they are made of the same atoms, you would never have guessed, because the physical characteristics of diamond can't be more different than graphite. Yet, they are both made of the identical atom! And note, the color of each is also different. So once more, the color of the object, at least in the visible spectrum, has less to do with the property of the atom than the way it is arranged.

Secondly, the word "substance" here should be clarified. Most substance are NOT made of just one element. Most solids that we deal with everyday are made of many different elements/molecules. So already you have more than just one type of element, and THEN, you have to deal with how these things are arranged to make up the solid.

This is why "solid state physics" is a different field than "atomic/molecular physics".

Zz.
 
Yes it would seem that emergent qualities do not have a 1 to 1 correlation to atomic properties. The types and effects of the different bonds are varied even for elements never mind molecules.

I am just fascinated with how perceived reality emerges out of the underlying structures that are describe by an unrelated language.
 
This was covered in my Intro Materials Science class, at least for Mechanical properties of materials, such as ductility, the stress-strain curve, etc. For bulk materials (anything more than a few atomic layers in depth), the bulk crystal structure and type of bond the atoms have between each other largely determines mechanical properties of the material. For example, materials covalently bonded are not ductile - think of things like ceramics. However, metallic bonds are much different and not as picky about what atom is which's neighbor, which allows for movement without shatter - aka, ductility. Of course, there are more things to consider, such as whether a material is a single crystal or not, and if not, how big are the individual crystals ('grains'), how differently are the crystals aligned, what defects are there, etc.
Correct me please if I'm wrong!
 

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