Energy and speed of a wind turbine

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of electrical power generated by a wind turbine and the associated changes in wind speed as it passes through the turbine. Participants explore the theoretical framework and assumptions involved in the problem, including the effects of air density, energy conversion efficiency, and the impact of friction on wind speed.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that modern wind turbines can convert up to 30% of the kinetic energy of the wind into electricity and poses a question about the power generation from a turbine with a specific rotor diameter and wind speed.
  • Another participant agrees with the method for determining electrical power but points out a discrepancy in air density calculations, suggesting that this affects the power output estimate.
  • Some participants argue that the speed of the outgoing wind is influenced by friction in the turbine, indicating that without friction, a certain relationship between incoming and outgoing kinetic energy could be assumed, but they express uncertainty about this assumption.
  • Several participants emphasize the importance of mass flow rate and suggest that the molecular kinetic energy of the air is not significant for this problem, focusing instead on mass flow and energy changes.
  • There is a suggestion to consider the energy in a small mass of air to calculate the velocity change, but this is contested by concerns about friction losses affecting the calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the method for calculating electrical power and the importance of mass flow, but there is disagreement regarding the effects of friction on wind speed and the assumptions about energy conservation in the system. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on these aspects.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the assumptions of constant temperature and velocity, the role of friction, and the implications of using different values for air density. The discussion highlights the complexity of the problem and the need for careful consideration of various factors.

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Homework Statement



Modern wind turbines can convert up to 30% of the kinetic energy of the incoming wind blowing through their blades to electricity. Assuming that the wind at a proposed offshore location blows steadily at 20 knots, how much electrical power can be generated from a turbine with rotor diameter d=80 m? By how much is the wind slowed when going through the turbine? Temperature of the air is 300K and its pressure is 1 bar. Air can be considered an ideal gas with Cv=5R/2.

Given: u=20 knots ~10.2889 m/s d=80 m T= 300k P= 1 bar Cv=5R/2

Homework Equations



With out being given any information of the output stream how do I determine output velocity?
Am I right by making certain assumptions, such as, T and V are constant, and that there is no internal energy and if so wouldn't Cv change to Cp? If T is constant would the system be adiabatic?



The Attempt at a Solution


I have attached a pdf of the work I have done solving for mass flow rate, Kinetic Energy of input, general equation trying to solve for velocity decrease of output and an attempt at creating an overall general energy equation.
 

Attachments

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Your method for determining electrical power looks fine. Your number for air density was higher than mine (mine = 1.16 kg/m^3) so you answer was correspondingly higher by about 11%.

Seems to me the speed of the outgoing wind depends on the friction in the turbine. If there was no friction you could say k.e.(out) = 0.7k.e.(in) but I see no justification for that. So sorry, I'm not of much help there. We need for the expert thermodynamicists to join in. Chet, you there? :smile:
 
From the wind speed and geometry of the turbine you can determine the volume of air passing the blades per second; you also know that the turbine harvests 30% of the kinetic energy available.

I don't think it cools the air, so the molecular kinetic energy isn't important - only the mass flow matters.

With the pressure and temperature given you should be able to calculate the mass per unit volume of air - and then put the parts together.
 
UltrafastPED said:
From the wind speed and geometry of the turbine you can determine the volume of air passing the blades per second; you also know that the turbine harvests 30% of the kinetic energy available.

I don't think it cools the air, so the molecular kinetic energy isn't important - only the mass flow matters.

With the pressure and temperature given you should be able to calculate the mass per unit volume of air - and then put the parts together.

That answers his first part but not the second, seems like ...
 
The ideal way to work a problem is one step at a time ...
 
UltrafastPED said:
The ideal way to work a problem is one step at a time ...

Yeh, but he already did the first part ...
 
I think UltrafastPED meant consider the energy in a small mass (m) of air... 0.5 mV^2

You know how much the energy has changed, the mass is constant so the velocity change can be calculated.
 
CWatters said:
I think UltrafastPED meant consider the energy in a small mass (m) of air... 0.5 mV^2

You know how much the energy has changed, the mass is constant so the velocity change can be calculated.

Not if there are friction losses ...
 

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