Equate Kinetic Friction to Rotational Energy?

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the relationship between kinetic friction and rotational energy in the context of a car owner wanting to upgrade to wider tires without sacrificing acceleration performance. Key variables include a coefficient of friction of 0.7, a stock wheel width of 6 inches, and a stock wheel mass of 20 lbs. The owner seeks to establish an equation that equates wheel friction at a given width to wheel weight, considering the effects of increased rolling resistance and moment of inertia. The participants emphasize the importance of understanding how friction and inertia interact in performance scenarios.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of kinetic energy equations, specifically Kinetic energy = 1/2 Mv^2
  • Knowledge of frictional force calculations, including the equation Frictional force = coeff. of friction * F(n)
  • Familiarity with normal force concepts, where Normal force = mass * gravity
  • Basic principles of vehicle dynamics, particularly regarding tire performance and acceleration
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the impact of tire width on vehicle handling and acceleration performance
  • Learn about the relationship between moment of inertia and rotational dynamics in automotive applications
  • Explore the effects of rolling resistance on vehicle speed and acceleration
  • Investigate advanced tire technologies that optimize friction and performance
USEFUL FOR

Automotive engineers, performance car enthusiasts, and anyone involved in vehicle dynamics or tire optimization will benefit from this discussion.

Gear Head
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Homework Statement


So a car owner wants to change his current tires and rims to a wider set of tires and rims for increased handling ability. However, the owner does not want to lose any acceleration performance due to the increased friction of having wider tires. To combat this, the owner wants to know how much weight loss is necessary to overcome the increased frictional forces and maintain his current acceleration abilities. Assume a uniform weight distribution for the wheels.

All variables are held constant except:
New wheel width
New wheel weight

Given:
Coefficient of friction is 0.7
Stock wheel width is 6in. or 15.24cm
Stock wheel mass is 20lbs

Create an equation that compares wheel friction at a given width to wheel weight.

Homework Equations


I think I should use:
Kinetic energy = 1/2 Mv^2 where M is mass and v is velocity
Frictional force = coeff. of friction * F(n) where F(n) is the normal force.
Normal force = mass * gravity

The Attempt at a Solution


I[/B] am having a tough time with this one. I assume that if I can set the friction equation equal to the rotational equation, then I can use that same formula for the new wheel and the old wheel and can compare the forces easily. I just can't figure out how to set the equation up.
 
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I'm not sure whether this question is deliberately misleading or just wrong-headed.
Some questions to consider:
- what would the performance be if you were to eliminate tyre to road friction completely?
- In the equation you quote for frictional force, what role does area of contact play?
- Is road grip merely down to friction?
- what slows cars down?

Edit: I should break the last item into two parts:

- what reduces a vehicle's top speed?
- what reduces a vehicle's acceleration?
(and which of those is relevant for 'performance'?)
 
Last edited:
Gear Head said:
Create an equation that compares wheel friction at a given width to wheel weight.

Is that the statement of the problem?

Or does the problem say you must calculate something to "maintain his current acceleration abilities"?
 
The problem statement doesn't make a lot of sense to me at all.

the owner does not want to lose any acceleration performance due to the increased friction of having wider tires.

Increasing friction between the tyre and ground usually improves acceleration - so presumably he is worried about increased rolling resistance?
 
Oh I think I see. The problem assumes that the wheels must slip in order that the engine achieve optimum power output. Therefore increasing friction must be compensated for by reducing the moment of inertia of the wheels so they spin up just as fast. Gosh the problem statement assumes you know a lot about drag racing.
 
Gear Head said:
wider set of tires and rims for increased handling
Okay ----
Gear Head said:
does not want to lose any acceleration performance due to the increased friction of having wider tires.
If he's accelerating through any turn sharp enough to notice friction from the steered/steering action, there's more going on than is easily calculated.
Gear Head said:
Create an equation that compares wheel friction at a given width to wheel weight.
Since there's no turn radius specified, take a straight line drive, and there's no difference other than from toe-in and camber which are also not specified.
 

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