Equilibrium Point: Does Internal Variable Input Need to be Zero?

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    Equlibrium Point
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of equilibrium points in control systems, specifically whether the input to a system must be zero for an equilibrium point to exist or if it can take on other values. The scope includes theoretical considerations and practical examples related to control systems and feedback mechanisms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether an equilibrium point requires the system input to be zero or if it can be any value.
  • Another participant provides an example involving a heating element in water, explaining that the system reaches an equilibrium point when the heat added equals the losses, resulting in a stable temperature.
  • A third participant mentions that equilibrium points can also be associated with negative feedback mechanisms that restore the system to a stable state.
  • A subsequent reply requests further explanation or references regarding the relationship between equilibrium points and feedback in operational amplifiers, suggesting that high gain in op-amps leads to equilibrium where input voltages are equal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on whether the input must be zero for an equilibrium point to exist, and multiple perspectives on the definition and examples of equilibrium points are presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various interpretations of equilibrium points, with some assumptions about system behavior and feedback mechanisms that are not fully explored or defined.

tuebingen78
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or some time the single point, in control systems they say it is the point where the internal variables of the system never change .

my question if we must have input of system zero, or it can be any value?

thanks
 
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If you had a small heating element in a large container of water, (so the water didn't boil) the heater would heat the water until the losses due to convection, conduction and radiation equalled the power being added to the system by the heater.

At that stage, the water temperature would remain the same. This would be called an equilibrium point.

If you did nothing and didn't turn on the heater, that would also be an equilibrium point but a trivial one which you would not normally consider.
 
Equilibrium point also refers to the point that a system is restored to by negative feedback.
Bob S
 
Bob S said:
Equilibrium point also refers to the point that a system is restored to by negative feedback.
Bob S

thanks for your answer, but can you explain more or give a reference for this.
 
tuebingen78 said:
thanks for your answer, but can you explain more or give a reference for this.
Look at the first two pictures and equations for inverting and non-inverting op amps in this:
http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/opamps.htm
In both cases, the gain of the differential op-amp is very high (G > 10,000), and the gain drops out of the equation. Derive these equations using

Vout = G(Vin+ - Vin-)

The op-amp output drives the feedback circuit to the point where the voltage at both inputs are equal (equilibrium).
Bob S
 
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