Event in SR: Explained w/ Example for Better Understanding

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of "event" in the context of special relativity (SR) and its significance compared to Galilean transformations. Participants explore the implications of defining events in physics, particularly in relation to motion and simultaneity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that an event is defined by its coordinates in space and time (x, y, z, t) and questions the necessity of this concept in Galilean transformations.
  • Another participant argues that events are essential for Galilean transformations as they provide the necessary coordinates for transforming between frames, emphasizing that absolute simultaneity is a key aspect in this context.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that while events existed in earlier theories, their importance is highlighted in SR due to the Lorentz transformation, which shows that different frames can assign different times to the same event.
  • One participant provides an example involving the motion of a ball to illustrate how the concept of an event is crucial for understanding instantaneous velocity and acceleration, noting that an event occurs at a specific time with no duration.
  • Another participant references Zeno's paradox regarding motion and discusses how calculus resolves the paradox by defining events as specific positions at specific times, but for no duration.
  • A participant introduces the idea of 4D spacetime, suggesting that motion is perceived through successive observations of events, which raises questions about the nature of the observer and their movement.
  • One participant acknowledges the complexity of the relationship between consciousness and time, suggesting that further exploration is needed to understand this connection.
  • Another participant cautions against straying too far from the physics of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of the concept of an event in both Galilean and special relativity contexts. There is no consensus on the role of events, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the deeper philosophical implications of events and observation.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the discussion touches on philosophical questions about the nature of reality and consciousness, which may not be directly related to the physics of events.

Pushoam
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Event is anything which can be located by (x,y,z,t).
We don't need this concept in Galilean transformation.
I was first introduced to the concept in the beginning of Special relativity.
I haven't understood the significance of this concept till now.
Can anyone please illustrate me using an example that if we had not defined the concept "event", where we would face difficulty in our studies?
 
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I'm not sure why do you say that we don't need the concept of Event in Galilean transformations. An event is just a point in space-time, a point with specific space and time coordinates (without the concept of Event, there wouldn't even be Galilean transformations). With Galilean transformations we can be sure of absolute simultaneity of events, so we don't need to know the space coordinates of some event in some inertial FoF to know when it will happen in another inertial FoF. This is not so in SR.
Pushoam said:
Can anyone please illustrate me using an example that if we had not defined the concept "event", where we would face difficulty in our studies?
Frankly, I don't even know how we could start studying SR without the concept of Event (at least, implicit).
 
Sure it existed before, it was just not emphasized so much. The Galilean transform involves events - to get coordinates in the new frame you need coordinates and a time for the old. If we want to specify a historic event, we specify location and time. The new thing about the Lorentz transform is that different frames attach different times to the same event, making it somewhat more important to think in terms of the event as a physical happening to distinguish it from different ways of labeling it in different frames.
 
PAllen said:
it was just not emphasized so much.
This is what I,too ,wanted to say.
PAllen said:
The new thing about the Lorentz transform is that different frames attach different times to the same event, making it somewhat more important to think in terms of the event as a physical happening to distinguish it from different ways of labeling it in different frames.
Thanks for it.
 
The notion of an event is essential to the understanding of motion, regardless of whether the theory is Einstein's, Newton's, or Galileo's.

Introductory physics usually starts with the study of motion, and very soon equations like $$v=v_o+at$$ are introduced. To understand them the notion of events is essential, for ##v## is the instantaneous velocity, that is, the velocity at a particular instant, and it's important to understand that that instant has a time duration of zero. For example, tossing a ball upward, it's speed reaches zero at the apex of its trajectory, but its acceleration is not zero at that instant. This is an example of an event. The ball is there, but it spends no time there!

There is nothing special about this particular event. At any point in the ball's trajectory it occupies a specific position at a specific time, but does so for no time at all.

One of Zeno's paradoxes was to imagine an arrow flying through the air. At any point in its trajectory it occupies a specific position, so it must spend some time at that position. While it's spending time there it's not moving. Since this is true of every location along the arrow's path, the arrow can't be in motion anywhere!

The resolution of this paradox came with the invention of calculus, and one of its central tenets was that a particle has a specific position at a specific clock-reading, but for no time. This is the notion of an event.
 
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Mister T said:
One of Zeno's paradoxes was to imagine an arrow flying through the air. At any point in its trajectory it occupies a specific position, so it must spend some time at that position. While it's spending time there it's not moving. Since this is true of every location along the arrow's path, the arrow can't be in motion anywhere!
4D spacetime speaking the arrow is not in motion. Because the arrow is not a 3D entity that moves, but a collection of co-existing 3D arrow events forming a 4D entity that simply is there, part of 4D spacetime. Motion only occurs when an observer introduces a specific reference frame, reading the successive (but co-existing, 4D speaking) arrow events. Relative moving 'observers' and their reference frames read a different event of the full 4D arrow existence. Remember Einstein's quotes about 4D existence...
 
Brilliant analysis, Ebeb. That makes it so simple and so clear. Just one question: If the observer reads successive arrow events, and if the observer himself is a 4-D object, then how do the successive observations come about? In what sense is the observer moving in order to make those observations?
 
Brilliant question, Tophat ;-)
Your question is about consciousness. We don't know (yet) how the relationschip consciousness/time experience etc works. We will need another Einstein genius to sort that out ...

But not only time is a mystery. We don't even know whether the concept of a 3D space (i.e. of simultaneous events) 'really' exists... Depends what your paradigm for 'reality' is... But I guess this takes us too far off topic ...
 
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I think we reached the end of the rope here. Let's don't stray from the physics.
 

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