Exact differential and work done

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of conservative and non-conservative forces, specifically focusing on the relationship between work done and exact differentials in the context of physics. Participants explore the implications of work being an exact differential and how this relates to the conservativeness of forces, with examples illustrating their points.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a force is conservative if the work done is an exact differential, as this implies that the work is independent of the path taken.
  • One participant provides an example involving the work done by gravity and friction, illustrating how the total work differs based on the path taken, suggesting that gravity is conservative while friction is not.
  • Another participant points out a typographical error regarding the forces discussed, indicating a need for clarity in examples provided.
  • Some participants mention that understanding the definition of an exact differential is crucial for addressing the main question about conservativeness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the examples provided, particularly regarding the classification of forces as conservative or non-conservative. There is no consensus on the implications of the examples, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of definitions and their applications.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the understanding of exact differentials and their implications on work done may depend on specific definitions and assumptions that are not fully explored in the discussion.

putongren
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TL;DR
The work done is independent of path if the infinitesimal work 𝐹⃗ ⋅𝑑𝑟⃗
is an exact differential.
I was researching about conservative and non-conservative forces, and there is some information in a website that sates that the work done is independent of path if the infinitesimal work 𝐹⃗ ⋅𝑑𝑟⃗ is an exact differential. It further states that in 2 dimensions the condition for 𝐹⃗ ⋅𝑑𝑟⃗ = Fxdx + Fydy to be an exact differential is:

𝑑𝐹𝑥/𝑑𝑦=𝑑𝐹𝑦/𝑑𝑥.

My question is this: why is a force conservative if the work is an exact differential? How can we deduce from the definition of a conservative force that this force is conservative if the work done to it is an exact differential?
 
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putongren said:
My question is this: why is a force conservative if the work is an exact differential?
Because if you integrate an exact differential, the result is the difference of some function evaluated at the two limits. This is what "work is independent of the path" means.

Here is an example. Suppose you use an eraser to erase a chalkboard. To do that you push the eraser against the board and, starting at the bottom B, you go to the middle M, then to the top T and then back to M. Let ##h=~##the height of the board.

The work done by the force of gravity ##mg## is
From B to M: ##~W_{BM}=-mg*\dfrac{h}{2}.##
From M to T: ##~W_{MT}=-mg*\dfrac{h}{2}.##
From T to back to M: ##~W_{TM}=+mg*\dfrac{h}{2}.##
Note that ##W_{BM}+W_{MT}+W_{TM}=W_{BM}.## This says that the total work is independent of the path because it is the same when one stops at M or goes past M to T and then back to M. We conclude that the force of gravity is conservative.

The work done by the force of friction ##f## is
From B to M: ##~W_{BM}=-f*\dfrac{h}{2}.##
From M to T: ##~W_{MT}=-f*\dfrac{h}{2}.##
From T to back to M: ##~W_{TM}=-f*\dfrac{h}{2}.##
Note that ##W_{BM}+W_{MT}+W_{TM}=3W_{BM}.## This says that the total work is not independent of the path because it is not the same when one stops at M or goes past M to T and then back to M. We conclude that the force of gravity friction is not conservative.
 
Last edited:
kuruman said:
The work done by the force of friction ##f## is
From B to M: ##~W_{BM}=-f*\dfrac{h}{2}.##
From M to T: ##~W_{MT}=-f*\dfrac{h}{2}.##
From T to back to M: ##~W_{TM}=-f*\dfrac{h}{2}.##
Note that ##W_{BM}+W_{MT}+W_{TM}=3W_{BM}.## This says that the total work is not independent of the path because it is not the same when one stops at M or goes past M to T and then back to M. We conclude that the force of *gravity* is not conservative.

I believe you meant friction. Besides that, great explanation.
 
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Juanda said:
I believe you meant friction. Besides that, great explanation.
Good catch, thanks. I cut and pasted from above without changing the force. I edited to fix the typo.
 
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Sorry, I assumed you already knew what an exact differential is.
 

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