Existence of the proton necessitate the existence of the electron?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between protons and electrons, specifically whether the existence of protons necessitates the existence of electrons. Participants explore this concept from various angles, including theoretical implications, definitions of neutrality, and the nature of particle interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the equal number of protons and electrons at various levels of the universe is noteworthy and may imply a necessary relationship.
  • One participant proposes a hypothetical scenario where all matter starts as neutral, consisting only of neutrons, leading to the eventual emergence of equal numbers of protons and electrons through radioactive decay.
  • Another participant argues that the idea of equal numbers of protons and electrons is incorrect, citing the constant creation and annihilation of these particles in the universe, which complicates counting them at any given moment.
  • A further contribution clarifies that while a specific piece of matter must have equal numbers of electrons and protons to be electrically neutral, this does not imply that the universe as a whole adheres to the same rule.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of electrons in relation to protons, with some supporting the idea of a necessary relationship and others contesting it. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in defining the relationship between protons and electrons, particularly regarding the assumptions about neutrality and the dynamic nature of particle interactions in the universe.

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Does the existence of the proton neccessitate the existence of the electron? I think it is strange that the number of electrons is exactly equal to the number of protons at every event level of the universe.
 
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i think so. right now I am leraning about protons and elctrons and stuff, and my teacher told me that there are the same number of protons as elctrons and stuff, so i think your right. :)
 


Suppose in the beginning, all matter were neutral; only neutrons (or antineutrons). But sooner or later, after a very large time-dilated natural decay of them, we had equal numbers of both protons AND electrons, just as a natural result of radioactive decay.
 


textbooks said:
Does the existence of the proton neccessitate the existence of the electron? I think it is strange that the number of electrons is exactly equal to the number of protons at every event level of the universe.

If the positive and negative charges were not in equal numbers, then the strong Coulomb force would run the extra charges away (and very quickly!) so after some time the remaining matter would be neutral.
 


This notion that there are somehow equal numbers of these particles in existence is not correct. Protons and electrons are constantly being created and annihilated throughout the universe in unrelated processes, and due to the relativity of simultaneity, you can't count them at anyone instant.
 


If a specific piece of matter is electrically neutral, then there must be the same number of electrons and neutrons in that particular piece of matter. That is, simply, the definition of "electrically neutral". But it does not follow that there must be the same number of electrons and neutrons in the universe. As jdog says, you cannot really even pose the question.
 

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