Explaining transverse theory of light using EM theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transverse nature of electromagnetic (EM) waves and the implications of the electric field component Ex being constant. Participants explore the relationship between the components of the electric field and the direction of wave propagation, referencing equations from electromagnetic theory.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why Ex cannot be a constant, suggesting that if it were, it would not represent a wave.
  • Others argue that for an EM wave propagating in the x-direction, the varying component must be perpendicular to the direction of propagation, implying that Ex should not vary.
  • A participant asserts that the y or z components of the electric field could vary while Ex remains constant, challenging the conventional understanding.
  • Another participant counters this by stating that a plane wave varies along both x and time, not along y and z, suggesting a misunderstanding of wave behavior.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of Ex being zero, with some participants asserting that if Ex is not zero, it implies k must be zero, indicating no wave exists.
  • One participant provides a mathematical derivation involving Maxwell's equations to support the argument that the electric field must be transverse.
  • Clarifications are made regarding terminology such as "c.c." (complex conjugate) and "HL units" (Heaviside-Lorentz units), which are relevant to the discussion of wave equations.
  • Some participants propose that for any wave, the component of E in the direction of wave propagation is zero, referencing the superposition principle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the electric field components in relation to wave propagation. There is no consensus on whether Ex can be a constant or the implications of it being zero, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about wave behavior and the mathematical framework of electromagnetic theory, which may not be universally accepted or agreed upon by all participants.

Pushoam
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just below eqn 3.25, it is said:
At any given time, Ex is constant
for all values of x, but of course, this possibility cannot
therefore correspond to a traveling wave advancing in the
positive x-direction.

Why can't Ex be a constant?
 
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Pushoam said:
Why can't Ex be a constant?
Because then it wouldn't be a wave. It would be a straight line, not a wave.
 
Wave is propagating in x- direc.
em wave is transverse. This means that the varying component has to be perpendicular to the direction of wave propagation.
So, it's the y or z component of the E which has to vary, not the x- component of the E.
So, the unvarying component i.e.x- component of the E could be constant.
What is wrong with this argument?
 
Pushoam said:
Wave is propagating in x- direc.
em wave is transverse. This means that the varying component has to be perpendicular to the direction of wave propagation.
No, this is exactly wrong. A plane wave propagating in the x direction varies along x and t, not along y and z. You have this completely backwards. Just look at the equation for a plane wave to see.
 
Dale said:
A plane wave propagating in the x direction varies along x and t,
I didn't get what you meant by this.
What I want to say is : for an em plane wave propagating in the x direction , it is y or z component of the E which varies along x and t,not the x component of E.
That is Ey(x,t) or Ez (x ,t) could vary, while Ex(x,t) is constant.
Now the book says that Ex(x,t) has to be zero.
So, my question is why can't it be any nonzero constant?
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In the first paragraph, what is meant by the phrase "em waves in equilibrium"?
Does it mean that energy density of the em wave remain constant?
 
Pushoam said:
So, my question is why can't it be any nonzero constant?
Because then it wouldn't be a wave.

If f is a wave in the x direction then ##\partial f/\partial x \ne 0##. So since ##\partial E_x/\partial x =0## it is not a wave. There may be a field in the x direction, but it doesn't make a wave.
 
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A free em. wave obeys (in HL units with ##c=1##)
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{E}=\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{B}=0, \quad \vec{\nabla} \times \vec{E}+\partial_t \vec{B}=0, \quad \vec{\nabla} \times \vec{B}-\partial_t vec{E}=0.$$
Now make a plane-wave ansatz (to be seen as finding the properties of the Fourier modes to be used in a Fourier-transform representation of the true fields, which are always "wave packets" of finite energy and momentum),
$$\vec{E}=\vec{E}_0 \exp(-\mathrm{i} \omega t+\mathrm{i} \vec{k} \cdot \vec{x})+\text{c.c.},$$
$$\vec{B}=\vec{B}_0 \exp(-\mathrm{i} \omega t+\mathrm{i} \vec{k} \cdot \vec{x})+\text{c.c.}.$$
Here ##\vec{E}_0## and ##\vec{B}_0## are functions of ##\omega## and ##\vec{k}##. Now using the first two equations you get
$$\vec{k} \cdot \vec{E}_0=\vec{k} \cdot \vec{B}_0=0.$$
This already implies that the em. field is transverse.

Now take the curl of the third equation. For the here used Cartesian components you get
$$\vec{\nabla} \times (\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{E})=-\Delta \vec{E}=-\partial_t \vec{\nabla} \times{\vec{B}}=-\partial_t^2 \vec{E},$$
i.e.,
$$(\partial_t^2-\Delta) \vec{E}=0.$$
Plugging in the plane-wave ansatz for ##\vec{E}## gives the dispersion relation
$$\omega=\pm |\vec{k}|.$$
The same holds true for ##\vec{B}##, which equation you find by taking the curl of the 4th Maxwell equation and use the third to eliminate ##\vec{E}##, leading to the wave equation
$$(\partial_t^2-\Delta) \vec{B}=0.$$
Now given ##\vec{E}## we can evaluate ##\vec{B}## from the 3rd equation,
$$\partial_t \vec{B}=-\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{E}=-\mathrm{i} \omega \vec{B}=-\mathrm{i} \vec{k} \times \vec{E}_0 \exp(\ldots)=-\mathrm{\omega} \vec{B}_0 \exp(\ldots).$$
This gives
$$\vec{B}_0=\hat{k} \times \vec{E}_0,$$
i.e., given ##\vec{E}_0## with ##\vec{k} \cdot \vec{E}_0##=0 gives uniquely ##\vec{B}_0##, i.e., ##\vec{E}## and ##\vec{B}## are perpendicular to each other and perpendicular to ##\vec{k}##.
 
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vanhees71 said:
Now using the first two equations you get
⃗k⋅⃗E0=⃗k⋅⃗B0=0.​
\vec{k} \cdot \vec{E}_0=\vec{k} \cdot \vec{B}_0=0.
2017-06-07-215315.jpg

Thank you, Vanhees 71.

What is meant by c.c. and HL units?

Dale said:
Because then it wouldn't be a wave.
Now, I got Dale's argument, too.
If Ex is not 0, then k has to be zero and k being 0 means there is no wave.

Thank you, Dale,too.This is true for plane wave.
In general ,is it always true that component of E in the direction of wave propagation is zero?

Any wave could be written as a combination of plane waves .
For each plane wave, component of E in the direction of wave propagation is zero.
So, using superposition principle ,for any wave, component of E in the direction of wave propagation is zero .

Is this o.k.?
 
Last edited:
HL units = Heaviside-Lorentz units; c.c.=complex conjugate. Since the Maxwell equations are linear differential equations with real coefficients you can just evaluate everything for the exp function, which makes the calculations a lot more easy than using the trigonometric functions sin and cos.
 

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