Father puts .45 rounds into teenage girl's laptop

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A 15-year-old girl faced consequences from her father after posting a disrespectful note about her parents on Facebook, claiming she was not their "slave" and should be compensated for household chores. In response, her father, Tommy Jordan, destroyed her laptop to teach her a lesson about online etiquette and respect. Opinions on his approach vary, with some supporting his drastic action as a necessary boundary, while others criticize it as an overreaction that models poor conflict resolution. Critics argue that the father should have opted for more constructive punishments instead of resorting to violence, even against an inanimate object. This incident raises broader questions about parenting styles and the importance of communication in addressing teenage behavior.
  • #51
phoenix:\\ said:
That is absurd. I don't think any parent raising their child in the best way possible needs to earn the child's respect. Seriously? At 15, the parent still needs to earn the child's respect? Taking care of it and not allowing it to starve is good enough. The extras such as designer clothing and a laptop are not needed. That child can write on some old scratch paper to do its homework (like I did) or create its own file cabinet to store data it may need down the line. Cell phone with texting? Nope, can easily get a pre-paid phone for $20 w/out texting. The child needs to earn the parents respect, not the other way around.

Earning respect does not equal buying designer clothing or laptop. I never said that.
But yes, a parent need to earn their child's respect. What do you think? That every child should automatically respect their parent? Note that the child never chose their parents, it were the parents that chose the child. I really don't see why a child should be forced to respect somebody.

The daughter is a spoiled brat, so I don't care that the father put a bullet through her laptop. At least she'll think twice or hide her insulting messages more securely next time she decides to go on a rant.

If the daughter is a spoiled brat, then maybe (highlight the word maybe) this is the fault of her parents?? They maybe raised her as a spoiled brat??
 
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  • #52
Earning respect does not equal buying designer clothing or laptop. I never said that.

The line about the extras are just extraneous things that parents usually give as gifts so that the child can be happier. It is a form of love and in that same light should earn more respect from the child for the parent. The parent just doesn't give the child things for no particular reason. Gifts are a form of endearment of the child.

What do you think? That every child should automatically respect their parent? Note that the child never chose their parents, it were the parents that chose the child.

There is an apparent difference in "automatically respecting" and respecting those who've spent possible hundreds of thousands taking care of you from doctors appointments, dentists, and taking out extra cash to pay for further education (college), etc..., when really, they didn't have to in the first place. That entitles respect and the child not respecting the parent only means it doesn't respect what the parent has done for it. If the child doesn't like it, it can pave its own way in the world by supporting itself on its own dime.

If the daughter is a spoiled brat, then maybe (highlight the word maybe) this is the fault of her parents?? They maybe raised her as a spoiled brat??

They raised her the best way the could but like many other parents, they aren't perfect. The father just decided to teach her a lesson because she disrespected him.
 
  • #53
phoenix:\\ said:
The line about the extras are just extraneous things that parents usually give as gifts so that the child can be happier. It is a form of love and in that same light should earn more respect from the child for the parent. The parent just doesn't give the child things for no particular reason. Gifts are a form of endearment of the child.

Gifts are endearment, but you shouldn't bribe your kids with gifts. Gifts are not a way to buy your childs love. You should earn your childs respect with a proper education and valuable lessons.
In a way, it's probably better if you teach your child to be happy without having to bribe them with gifts.

There is an apparent difference in "automatically respecting" and respecting those who've spent possible hundreds of thousands taking care of you from doctors appointments, dentists, and taking out extra cash to pay for further education (college), etc..., when really, they didn't have to in the first place. That entitles respect and the child not respecting the parent only means it doesn't respect what the parent has done for it. If the child doesn't like it, it can pave its own way in the world by supporting itself on its own dime.

Parents chose to have a child. They chose to give so much money to doctors appointments and dentist and so on. If they wouldn't do that, then they would be neglecting their children.
Children owe their parents nothing, since they never chose to be born to begin with. And a child should certainly not be automatically thankful because their parents pay for doctors appointments because it is the duty of the parent to provide such things.
They raised her the best way the could but like many other parents

And you know this how??

The father just decided to teach her a lesson because she disrespected him.

Yep, she taught her child that

1) Public humiliation is ok.

2) If you're bigger and stronger then the other person, then you should utilize that power.

3) It's ok to hurt the person who you're supposed to love

4) It's ok to totally disrespect personal property that is expensive and that other people can't afford

5) It's not ok to vent in private against your friends

6) It's ok to hack other people their facebook account

Hmmmm, I wonder where the child gets her morals from??
 
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  • #54
Gifts are endearment, but you shouldn't bribe your kids with gifts. Gifts are not a way to buy your childs love. You should earn your childs respect with a proper education and valuable lessons.
In a way, it's probably better if you teach your child to be happy without having to bribe them with gifts.

Not saying it is bribery, there is an obvious difference between the two. Giving a gift to a love one is not bribing that person to love him/her back. That is a misrepresentation of my post.

Parents chose to have a child. They chose to give so much money to doctors appointments and dentist and so on. If they wouldn't do that, then they would be neglecting their children.
Children owe their parents nothing, since they never chose to be born to begin with. And a child should certainly not be automatically thankful because their parents pay for doctors appointments because it is the duty of the parent to provide such things.

Not choosing to be born is a weak argument. The non-living have no voice in the matter of being born or not. To say they didn't choose to be born is like saying nonexistence is existence. It is a gross illogical argument to make.

The child being born and being able to conceptualize and form thoughts in the world is proof of its existence and want to remain vigilant and steadfast in the world of the living. The child doesn't decide it because it couldn't decide it as it didn't exist until the parents made it so.

Children owe their parents as much as the parents owe their children if they so choose to keep taking care of them. Reciprocity for those who take care of you should be greatly considered, and although you don't have to do the same in the matter, it is a common method between those with strong bonds between one another.

And you know this how??

I am assuming on that matter, so you can fault for it if you'd like, but your previous post will be thrown into question as well. "They obviously taught her to be that way", you don't know that as someone may just feel entitled. I've seen poor kids believe they were entitled to more than what they were given. Not everyone is the same given the specifics of the environment although it may contribute to portion of the personality development.

1) Public humiliation is ok.

Child publicly humiliated the parent.

2) If you're bigger and stronger then the other person, then you should utilize that power.

He didn't use strength in the matter. So that is an invalid point.

3) It's ok to hurt the person who you're supposed to love

Showing her how it feels to be humiliated in the public eye...? And do you know she's hurt?

4) It's ok to totally disrespect personal property that is expensive and that other people can't afford

What would you say if the father decided to give the laptop away to a person that couldn't afford it? Reason I am bringing this up is because your last point is irrelevant.
 
  • #55
Jimmy Snyder said:
I wish I could afford to trash a computer. I wouldn't do it, I just wish I could afford it.

I wanted to post exactly this. It must be nice to be so rich that the father can afford to just destroy a perfectly good laptop rather than sell it or give it to charity. Maybe for his next punishment he can burn his daughter's clothes in front of a homeless shelter.
 
  • #56
Facebook message from Tommy Jordan, the father mentioned in the OP title:

Media Response to Anita Li, from the Toronto Star

Since you took the time to email us with your requests like we asked, I’ll take the time to give you an honest follow-up response. You’ll have to forgive me for doing so publicly though; again I want to be sure my words are portrayed the way I actually say them, not cut together to make entirely different points.

Your questions were:
Q: Why did you decide to reprimand your daughter over a public medium like YouTube?

A: Well, I actually just had to load the video file itself on YouTube because it’s a better upload process than Facebook, but the intended audience was her Facebook friends and the parents of those friends who saw her post and would naturally assume we let our children get away with something like that. So, to answer “Why did you reprimand her over a public medium like Facebook” my answer is this: Because that’s how I was raised. If I did something embarrassing to my parents in public (such as a grocery store) I got my tail tore up right there in front of God and everyone, right there in the store. I put the reprisal in exactly the same medium she did, in the exact same manner. Her post went out to about 452 people. Mine went out to about 550 people… originally. I had no idea it would become what it did.

Q: How effective do you think your punishment was (i.e. shooting her laptop and reading her letter online)?

A: I think it was very effective on one front. She apparently didn’t remember being talked to about previous incidents, nor did she seem to remember the effects of having it taken away, nor did the eventual long-term grounding seem to get through to her. I think she thought “Well, I’ll just wait it out and I’ll get it back eventually.” Her behavior corrected for a short time, and then it went back to what it was before and worse. This time, she won’t ever forget and it’ll be a long time before she has an opportunity to post on Facebook again. I feel pretty certain that every day from then to now, whenever one of her friends mentions Facebook, she’ll remember it and wish she hadn’t done what she did.

The second lesson I want her to learn is the value of a dollar. We don’t give her everything she asks for, but you can all imagine what it’s like being the only grandchild and the first child. Presents and money come from all sides when you’re young. Most of the things she has that are “cool” were bought or gifted that way. She’s always asked for very few things, but they’re always high-dollar things (iPod, laptop, smartphone, etc). Eventually she gets given enough money to get them. That’s not learning the value of a dollar. Its knowing how to save money, which I greatly applaud in her, but it’s not enough. She wants a digital SLR camera. She wants a 22 rifle like mine. She wants a car. She wants a smart phone with a data package and unlimited texting. (I have to hear about that one every week!)

She thinks all these things are supposed to be given to her because she’s got parents. It’s not going to happen, at least not in our house. She can get a job and work for money just like everyone else. Then she can spend it on anything she wants (within reason). If she wants to work for two months to save enough to purchase a $1000 SLR camera with an $800 lens, then I can guarantee she’ll NEVER leave it outside at night. She’ll be careful when she puts it away and carries it around. She’ll value it much more because she worked so hard to get it. Instead, with the current way things have been given to her, she's on about her fourth phone and just expects another one when she breaks the one she has. She's not sorry about breaking it, or losing it, she's sorry only because she can't text her friends. I firmly believe she'll be a LOT more careful when she has to buy her own $299.00 Motorola Razr smartphone.

Until then, she can do chores, and lots and lots of them, so the people who ARE feeding her, clothing her, paying for all her school trips, paying for her musical instruments, can have some time to relax after they finish working to support her and the rest of the family. She can either work to make money on her own, or she will do chores to contribute around the house. She’s known all along that all she has to do is get a job and a lot of these chores will go away. But if you’re too lazy to work even to get things you want for yourself, I’m certainly not going to let you sit idly on your rear-end with your face glued to both the TV and Facebook for 5 to 6 hours per night. Those days are over.

Q: How did your daughter respond to the video and to what happened to her laptop?

A: She responded to the video with “I can’t believe you shot my computer!” That was the first thing she said when she found out about it. Then we sat and we talked for quite a long while on the back patio about the things she did, the things I did in response, etc.

Later after she’d had time to process it and I’d had time to process her thoughts on the matters we discussed, we were back to a semi-truce… you know that uncomfortable moment when you’re in the kitchen with your child after an argument and you’re both waiting to see which one’s going to cave in and resume normal conversation first? Yeah, that moment. I told her about the video response and about it going viral and about the consequences it could have on our family for the next couple of days and asked if she wanted to see some of the comments people had made. After the first few hundred comments, she was astounded with the responses.

People were telling her she was going to commit suicide, commit a gun-related crime, become a drug addict, drop out of school, get pregnant on purpose, and become a stripper because she’s too emotionally damaged now to be a productive member of society. Apparently stripper was the job-choice of most of the commenters. Her response was “Dude… it’s only a computer. I mean, yeah I’m mad but pfft.” She actually asked me to post a comment on one of the threads (and I did) asking what other job fields the victims of laptop-homicide were eligible for because she wasn’t too keen on the stripping thing.

We agreed we learned two collective lessons from this so far:

First: As her father, I’ll definitely do what I say I will, both positive and negative and she can depend on that. She no longer has any doubt about that.

Second: We have always told her what you put online can affect you forever. Years later a single Facebook/MySpace/Twitter comment can affect her eligibility for a good job and can even get her fired from a job she already has. She’s seen first-hand through this video the worst possible scenario that can happen. One post, made by her Dad, will probably follow him the rest of his life; just like those mean things she said on Facebook will stick with the people her words hurt for a long time to come. Once you put it out there, you can’t take it back, so think carefully before you use the internet to broadcast your thoughts and feelings.

Interesting, I'd say. Puts more perspective on the whole thing.
 
  • #57
phoenix:\\ said:
Not saying it is bribery, there is an obvious difference between the two. Giving a gift to a love one is not bribing that person to love him/her back. That is a misrepresentation of my post.

OK, if you shouldn't love someboyd because they give you a gift, why should you love them then?

Not choosing to be born is a weak argument. The non-living have no voice in the matter of being born or not. To say they didn't choose to be born is like saying nonexistence is existence. It is a gross illogical argument to make.

The child being born and being able to conceptualize and form thoughts in the world is proof of its existence and want to remain vigilant and steadfast in the world of the living. The child doesn't decide it because it couldn't decide it as it didn't exist until the parents made it so.

Indeed, so the parents made the choice. The child never chooses their parents and their environment, and therefore has no requirement to respect it.

The only one with a choice were the parents.

Children owe their parents as much as the parents owe their children if they so choose to keep taking care of them. Reciprocity for those who take care of you should be greatly considered, and although you don't have to do the same in the matter, it is a common method between those with strong bonds between one another.

I don't see why children would owe their parents. If the parents are worthy of respect, then I agree that they should get it. But not all parents are worthy of respect. For example: abusive parents, neglecting parents, alcoholic parents, etc. To say that you should respect your parents because they are your parents is just wrong.

I am assuming on that matter, so you can fault for it if you'd like, but your previous post will be thrown into question as well. "They obviously taught her to be that way"

I never said that. Please don't misquote what I said.

Child publicly humiliated the parent.

Yes, and that obviously made it right?? What next?? Children get to wear T-shirts saying "I disrespected my parents" or "I stole something"??

He didn't use strength in the matter. So that is an invalid point.

He didn't use his physical strength, but rather his mental strength. He knows the child can't do anything back to him.

Showing her how it feels to be humiliated in the public eye...? And do you know she's hurt?

I forgot to say in point 1 that the child never humiliated her dad in front of the public eye. She just sent a message to a few close friends. You never vented about your parents to your friends??

What would you say if the father decided to give the laptop away to a person that couldn't afford it? Reason I am bringing this up is because your last point is irrelevant.

I would be more ok with it, since that also teaches that charity is important in life. (I wouldn't be entirely ok with it, but it's an improvement as to what he did now)
 
  • #58
Char. Limit said:
Interesting, I'd say. Puts more perspective on the whole thing.

Yep, and he continues to trash his daughter in front of everybody.
 
  • #59
OK, if you shouldn't love someboyd because they give you a gift, why should you love them then?

Hmm...

Indeed, so the parents made the choice. The child never chooses their parents and their environment, and therefore has no requirement to respect it.

The only one with a choice were the parents.

What are you saying exactly? I don't feel battling around possible differing opinions on respect is good for this current argument, so I would need you to define what you think it is means to respect something.

I am taking respect as an act of abiding by the established rules and being courteous of one's feelings. The daughter broke those two tenets of respect (there is more to the definition though). The father doesn't have to respect the daughter either even if she didn't choose as she couldn't.

The daughter can choose her environment now though, she could very well ask for more independence via getting a job like the father wants her to do, but she doesn't. While she didn't decide to be born into it, she surely chose to stay within it.

I never said that. Please don't misquote what I said.

My mistake.

Yes, and that obviously made it right?? What next?? Children get to wear T-shirts saying "I disrespected my parents" or "I stole something"??

I personally would have taken a different approach to the situation but what is considered "right" is something I don't exactly judge when it concerns parenting. I get the point of view that he took, but I am not deciding whether it is right or wrong, I just don't care as I said before.

He didn't use his physical strength, but rather his mental strength. He knows the child can't do anything back to him.

She defied him plenty of times (as stated within the video), she can still defy him again if she so pleases. The rest is speculative on your part in which you told me to not to do, but you get to do it?

I forgot to say in point 1 that the child never humiliated her dad in front of the public eye. She just sent a message to a few close friends. You never vented about your parents to your friends??

Most children do it, but I never felt the need to do it. Don't have the best parents but I could have gotten worse parents than the ones that raised me.

But to respond to the "public" thing, can other children see it, do their parents also get to see the message, etc...? If so, then it is more local embarrassment as it seeps through the minds of other parents that their family is more dysfunctional and that in turn causes gossip. Of course, what the father did is on a whole other level of making my previous point irrelevant, but still, the initial situation is embarrassing. Obviously the father didn't care too much for the embarrassment so, I'll recede on that point (public humiliation).

I would be more ok with it, since that also teaches that charity is important in life. (I wouldn't be entirely ok with it, but it's an improvement as to what he did now)

Giving things away isn't exactly helping for a long term, it may gratify the present, but all in all, a laptop is useless to a person living rather below the mean average. They'd possibly end up selling it to keep their home afloat. Destroying the laptop is fine as long as he can afford it. If I burnt $1 million would you hate me for it? I am at a loss but you lost nothing, so it shouldn't matter to you what is done with property so as long as you don't own it. As for him "teaching" the daughter things, that has passed, he tried grounding her, didn't work obviously, she has her own mind and she will have to change herself, nothing more the father can do but to react in his mind.
 
  • #60
micromass said:
If the daughter is a spoiled brat, then maybe (highlight the word maybe) this is the fault of her parents?? They maybe raised her as a spoiled brat??
Obviously. Kids pick up on their parents' attitudes and values by osmosis, by being around them all day long for years. The behavior the Dad is protesting is behavior he and or the mother unwittingly taught her. It doesn't surprise me that a guy who responds to a problem like this with a .45 has a bratty daughter. What surprises me is that she's not much worse.
 
  • #61
Asta Lavista, Laptop.
:-D
 
  • #62
micromass said:
Indeed, so the parents made the choice. The child never chooses their parents and their environment, and therefore has no requirement to respect it.

I answered this exact point many posts back.

A parent chooses to have a child, correct. That parent then becomes bound to provide the legally acceptable minimum the child needs to survive. The child doesn't have to show any respect for them doing that.

It's all the other stuff, the 'added extras' that the child should respect the parent for. They can even be a sign of respect both ways (see previous post for that one).

The way you are going on, you'd think parents are supposed to supply many thousands of dollars of kit for their kids and the kids should just believe "yeah, you're my parents that's what your supposed to do". Utter non-sense - their not supposed to do anything of the sort.

No, you shouldn't bribe kids with presents. I know someone who did this for years and their kids are complete brats.
 
  • #63
micromass said:
I forgot to say in point 1 that the child never humiliated her dad in front of the public eye. She just sent a message to a few close friends. You never vented about your parents to your friends??

1. Do we know it was set so privately no one outside of the personal friends could see it?

2. She was still grounded for 3 months from the last time she slagged them off - circumstances around which we don't know where she did it - publicly or otherwise.
 
  • #64
There are too many unknowns to have an opinion on the incident.

As far as kids respecting their parents and vice versa goes, I don't think it should be a necessity.

Because a 15 year old might have unrealistic expectations from her parents. Imagine for example a child that, in order to respect her parents, expects from them to always buy her the things she asks and not do any chores around the house. Imagine also that (as many children do) she is set on her opinion no matter what. How can the parents earn her respect then? She shouldn't expect these things and respect or not, she will have to comply! Words can get you so far, after that its either the parents' way or the child's.

The only criterion of how good parenting was to a child is what she does when she grows up eventually. Maybe a little disrespecting isn't all that bad! Every child and every parent is special.
 
  • #65
zoobyshoe said:
Obviously. Kids pick up on their parents' attitudes and values by osmosis, by being around them all day long for years. The behavior the Dad is protesting is behavior he and or the mother unwittingly taught her. It doesn't surprise me that a guy who responds to a problem like this with a .45 has a bratty daughter. What surprises me is that she's not much worse.

I pretty much agree, although I have no problem whatsoever, with what he did. The only problem i see comes, IMO, when he publicly dissed his daughter to get even with her for dissing him publicly, seems hypocritical. On the other hand, one could say that he publicly dissed her to show her how it felt to be publicly dissed.

It reminds me of an old saying, by the time your bad enough to kick your fathers a**, you will have too much respect for him to ever think about doing it. Respect comes with time, during the teenage years it is hard to focus on the good, its easy to focus on the bad.
 
  • #66
Jasongreat said:
I pretty much agree, although I have no problem whatsoever, with what he did. The only problem i see comes, IMO, when he publicly dissed his daughter to get even with her for dissing him publicly, seems hypocritical. On the other hand, one could say that he publicly dissed her to show her how it felt to be publicly dissed.

It reminds me of an old saying, by the time your bad enough to kick your fathers a**, you will have too much respect for him to ever think about doing it. Respect comes with time, during the teenage years it is hard to focus on the good, its easy to focus on the bad.
Laws are different in different places. Here in San Diego discharging a firearm is illegal within the city limits except at a firing range. He would have been ticketed and the gun might have been confiscated. No one wants to live next to someone who shoots a gun off when he's ticked at his kids. It's on the psycho side. I know a guy who had the cops come over twice because he was in the back yard shooting at rattle snakes. His neighbors, quite rightly, called the cops. It turned out the guy was losing his mind - had a brain tumor. That's the feeling I would have about anyone who shot a gun off at home; there must be a screw loose.
 
  • #67
Both are wrong. You figure it out.
 
  • #68
cristycs said:
Both are wrong. You figure it out.

What a brilliant and totally enlightening post! Informative too.
 
  • #69
Char. Limit said:
What a brilliant and totally enlightening post! Informative too.

Well it is. A logical person should see it. (might need a bit of imagination to).

EDIT: hint "math" problem.
 
  • #70
cristycs said:
Both are wrong. You figure it out.

cristycs said:
Well it is. A logical person should see it. (might need a bit of imagination to).

EDIT: hint "math" problem.

Are we allowed to shoot you?
 
  • #71
I like Serena said:
Are we allowed to shoot you?
If your goal in life is me getting shoot I would gladly stay and take a bullet.

EDIT: why would you like to shoot me ?
 
  • #72
You guys can say all you want bad about the father. The girls major complaints were chores. Not molestation or other abuse. She even needed to lie and say she made "all the beds every morning" and "had to do everyone's laundry" cause she knew the truth was at worst, minimal even to kids.(the dad pointed out that what she claimed was a lie) The girl obviously has decent parents if they care enough to take the time to make a stupid video like that. My mom woulda been to drunk to even use the computer lmfao. The fact that they go through the trouble to check posts that are blocked from them seeing also goes a long way.
I think all parents should read their kids facebook and be involved in their lives. This is coming from a 22 year old who knows what can happen if their parents don't show interest(me lol). I see it with my younger friends now too. buddy of mines younger brother is 14 and smokes heroin. His parents DONT KNOW. He has all the symptoms of a junkie, gets sick, bags under his eyes, pens all go missing, he posts it on his facebook occasionally, AND HIS PARENTS DON'T KNOW. The kid is going to die because the parents don't care enough to check. Its stupid when its that obvious. (I said it in that context to make a point. As of about 3 weeks ago the kid went to rehab after being arrested at school with dope. After using for at least 6 months, that's just the time my brother knew he was doing it). I bought my brother a drug test, and tested him just to be sure. There are ALOT of young kids doing H. I mean ALOT. I don't know if its always been like that, but they are YOUNG. 13-14 doing Meth and H.

Back to the point (sorry lol) One could probably argue that shooting it was a little over reaction. We can't say he over reacted with how he felt, just the act of shooting was too much. Now if we assume this, then if we assume that they also live in a different environment from most. THis could easily say that relative to what is considered usual were there from, its not as over the top as one might think. No one was ever in danger, and it definitely sent a point. I think personally he should be applauded for going outside the box and thinking unconventionally to raise his kid right. Now she will have a reminder that she can see and remember that all the stuff she has is a privilege not a right, and that she is blessed and should be greatfull. At least in a perfect world she would think that. She would probably think about how crazy her dad was, but hopefully when she is older she will be great-full for the lesson.
 
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  • #73
cristycs said:
Well it is. A logical person should see it. (might need a bit of imagination to).

EDIT: hint "math" problem.

We shouldn't have to, though. This isn't the homework help section. Just tell us what you're trying to say.
 
  • #74
Dad did exactly what he said he would do.

"I told her if no uncertain terms that we had already taken it away from her once. The next time, there wouldn’t be the same chance. If it happened again, “I’ll put a bullet through it.”"

had he not , what would have been the message?

That tale will become a family legend and the grandkids will love it.

There's almost a song about it already -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7VKdwx5AB5k

old jim
 
  • #75
Char. Limit said:
We shouldn't have to, though. This isn't the homework help section. Just tell us what you're trying to say.

Thinking for a solution to a problem is not homework.

Well every person has his opinion, it is harder to try to convince someone about my opinions, it's the end result that matters. Me saying "Both are wrong." is like saying to you: x+y=z dosen't matter to me if x=-3 and y=3 or x and y are both 0 where x=my opinion about the father and y=my opinion about the daughter and z=("Both are wrong"), the only thing that matters is if we agree that z="both are wrong".

Ex: 3 people tasting a 3 layer cake, and the first one says I don't like the cake because of the second layer, the second one says I don't like the cake because the first layer, and the third one says I don't like neither of the layers. Why should they be arguing about the layers? when they have something in common, they all didn't like the cake.

This can be extended to religion, politics, education...
 
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  • #76
If it was a Mac that bullet did not go wasted. :)
 
  • #77
JaredJames said:
I didn't say anyone said it was illegal.

I was commenting on the complaint of them using a gun how they feel, moral arguments aside, it was perfectly acceptable to do it (RE: all that 'endangerment' nonsense).

Well, considering that the odds of being shot by a gun increase dramatically when you decide to keep one in the house, I'd hardly consider gun safety "'endangerment' nonsense" at all. He also has a responsibility to teach his children to respect firearms, and discharging them into appliances a few feet from the house doesn't quite do that.
 
  • #78
phoenix:\\ said:
The line about the extras are just extraneous things that parents usually give as gifts so that the child can be happier. It is a form of love and in that same light should earn more respect from the child for the parent. The parent just doesn't give the child things for no particular reason. Gifts are a form of endearment of the child.

They raised her the best way the could but like many other parents, they aren't perfect. The father just decided to teach her a lesson because she disrespected him.

Its not really human nature to respect someone that dotes on you. Things that are free are not valued. If he wanted respect, he should've made her earn the laptop to begin, not given it to her and then taken it away. He was wrong in this regard, imo.
 
  • #79
Think about the child slaves in Africa mining materials for that laptop. Should've given it away.

Posting the video to her wall, while amusing, was immature. Kids make big deals about their public image. I'd imagine she'll be known as that 'girl with the lunatic father' to other kids at school. Not what I'd want to put my kid through.
 
  • #81
She should have got a mac.

Seriously, though, the father's an idiot, teaching his daughter that a gun is a toy and wasting a few hundred dollars of his own money along the way.
 
  • #82
why most on this thread, not see that the father overreacted a lot more than normally should have.If he wanted to get rid of the laptop, he could have donated it to charity or given it to someone else on the road, if he thinks his daughter does not deserve it.

And this does not solve anything, she can access internet from anywhere not necessarily use a laptop (computers are everywhere remember !).
 
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  • #83
how much do you want to bet they're texan? How much? Anyone? Just lol on the accent, its texan yep.

I think the father did a splendid thing and better yet put it on the viral internet to embarrass. Here are fathers of today, ones who actually go to the best point to teach they're kids a lesson. :)

Now if they are texan, and they live in my city, it's going to be one hell of a time at my school on Monday.

Just yeehaw, and props to the dad. :)
 
  • #84
cristo said:
Seriously, though, the father's an idiot, teaching his daughter that a gun is a toy and wasting a few hundred dollars of his own money along the way.

but he's going to extort the $130 from her for the parts, so he'll at least get that back. This whole thing reminds me of rick perry & the coyote.
 
  • #85
thorium1010 said:
why most on this thread, not see that the father overreacted a lot more than normally should have.If he wanted to get rid of the laptop, he could have donated it to charity or given it to someone else on the road, if he thinks his daughter does not deserve it.

And this does not solve anything, she can access internet from anywhere not necessarily use a laptop (computers are everywhere remember !).

Are you kidding? Seems to me like the vast majority of this thread thinks the father is a terrible person, and should be shot himself. Okay, not quite THAT bad, but seems like everyone in this thread thinks the father is a terrible person.

ArcherofScience said:
how much do you want to bet they're texan? How much? Anyone? Just lol on the accent, its texan yep.

I think the father did a splendid thing and better yet put it on the viral internet to embarrass. Here are fathers of today, ones who actually go to the best point to teach they're kids a lesson. :)

Now if they are texan, and they live in my city, it's going to be one hell of a time at my school on Monday.

Just yeehaw, and props to the dad. :)

North Carolina, actually.
 
  • #86
Char. Limit said:
Are you kidding? Seems to me like the vast majority of this thread thinks the father is a terrible person, and should be shot himself. Okay, not quite THAT bad, but seems like everyone in this thread thinks the father is a terrible person.

Actually I was kind of surprised to see so many strong but differing opinions, so just for fun I made a count.
Losely counting I found 12 people in favor of the dad, 12 people against the actions of the dad, and 9 people that did not gave a clear enough opinion.

That's... fifty-fifty!
 
  • #87
I like Serena said:
Actually I was kind of surprised to see so many strong but differing opinions, so just for fun I made a count.
Losely counting I found 12 people in favor of the dad, 12 people against the actions of the dad, and 9 people that did not gave a clear enough opinion.

That's... fifty-fifty!

That might be why both Micromass (against the actions of the dad) and myself (in favor of the actions of the dad) felt outnumbered then. :biggrin:
 
  • #88
Father demonstrated lack of emotional inhibition because his feelings were hurt. He did so with a gun. Bad role model.
 
  • #89
Pythagorean said:
Father demonstrated lack of emotional inhibition because his feelings were hurt. He did so with a gun. Bad role model.
That's what I'm saying. Sounds like a little marble displacement in the right frontal lobe.
 
  • #90
Char. Limit said:
Are you kidding? Seems to me like the vast majority of this thread thinks the father is a terrible person, and should be shot himself. Okay, not quite THAT bad, but seems like everyone in this thread thinks the father is a terrible person.

Nobody is perfect, everyone deals with their problem in their own way. In this case the father showed serious lack of maturity and insight of his actions. His daughter was irresponsible, but that does not mean, one stoop to her level and get revenge (seems childish). He had warned her no doubt about the consequence of her actions, he could always taken away the laptop, but in this case he acted too immaturely.
 
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  • #91
Not specific to their relationship, but a general comment of the info provided

People come into the world free of things like "being a spoilled brat".

(assuming) on one hand the farther has raised the child with this trait, while on the other he tries to resolve it by shooting her goods.

If she doesn't see the distinction between, "dad bought it, so it's really his" and "dad bought, but it's really mine" that's his crime, but apparently her punishment.

With that being said, this is a cruicial time (developent, brain "setting in it's ways") in her life, and if this incident has made significant impact in this sense, he may have just layered another issue ontop of the entitlement issue/reinforced that issue.

Oh and if this is actually made a big deal in their family, then perhaps it is all fitting.
 
  • #92
i grew up in a family where much communication was almost subliminal
there was so much you just couldn't say

and i was amazed at how some families used hollering and arm-waving that terrified me but was normal to them.

What's healthier?
Who am i to say?
 
  • #93
Can you imagine the frustration of a father who's probably tried most of the things so far suggested under the ambit of 'good parenting' but still has to live with and love and try to positively influence his kid?

I have very little experience in trying to get people to do things for themselves (think group assignments), but even I've realized how frustratingly difficult it is to get someone to listen to you about something and then act upon it even when they agree with it or already know it.

In a group of 8, maybe 5 work in good groups... Not for the lack of trying different methods, not because it doesn't hurt them; it does. For some reason, it is very difficult to lead people. The guy is human; he lost patience.
 
  • #94
chaoseverlasting said:
Can you imagine the frustration of a father who's probably tried most of the things so far suggested under the ambit of 'good parenting' but still has to live with and love and try to positively influence his kid?

Yep, I'm a father of two. They're not teens yet, but I can definitely imagine frustration...

I have very little experience in trying to get people to do things for themselves (think group assignments), but even I've realized how frustratingly difficult it is to get someone to listen to you about something and then act upon it even when they agree with it or already know it.

And the lesson to our children is that you can't force people to do things and you can't force people to listen (except for maybe putting a gun to their head, or brandishing a gun). And you especially don't start shooting things when you're not getting your way. That's what you should strive to show by example.


In a group of 8, maybe 5 work in good groups... Not for the lack of trying different methods, not because it doesn't hurt them; it does. For some reason, it is very difficult to lead people. The guy is human; he lost patience.

Yes, and his behavior shouldn't be excused; we don't justify behavior as a mistake, we try to correct it as a society, by saying "this is the wrong thing to do". Though he should be forgiven after he admits he did the wrong thing.
 
  • #95
chaoseverlasting said:
Can you imagine the frustration of a father who's probably tried most of the things so far suggested under the ambit of 'good parenting' but still has to live with and love and try to positively influence his kid?

I can't even remotely imagine what it would be like. I can imagine myself at 15. Very very rebellious, with father "away" there was no "ultimate" threat, since I was physically bigger then my mother.

My mother would "talk" with me if I was in trouble. And to some degree I absorbed the "lesson".

It was when i was 15, I can distinctly remember getting into trouble again, heading home for the "talk". To my surprise, my mother said something along the lines of, "I've talked enough, you've heard enough, these are your choices and I am disappointed." The tone and facial expression was perfect, I felt every ounce of guilt I earned. I matured a few years that day.

Only if every ones mom was so smart.
 
  • #96
Many a time I felt like throwing my computer in the lake due to various malfunctions. I'm sure you guys remember fighting with DOS and on up every time you added something, every time you upgraded something and just for no reason it all - BSOD AAARRRGGG But I can't imagine shooting my kids laptop. It would just get locked up When he was a little kid and thought the floor was where all his clothes and toys went I bagged them up and hid the bags for a month. He's a lot neater than I am now. Having had a child who had no response whatsoever to punishment like spanking I got really good at making the punishment fit the crime. Computers were always in the main living room where all content was visible and spending too long on a game or whatever, meant it got unplugged or battery removed.

Since I've lived 4 miles from western NC I can reaffirm the love of firearms in that area. That's bootleg country too. The Rudolph guy who set off the bomb in Olympic park in Atlanta and killed a lady right next to her child hid out in that area for a long time. Very clannish to say the least.
 
  • #97
Pythagorean said:
Father demonstrated lack of emotional inhibition because his feelings were hurt. He did so with a gun. Bad role model.

Father pre meditated what was about to happen, he warned daughter that if she used her computer to diss him publicly she would lose said computer. She did exactly what he warned against, he did exactly what he said he would do, where is the emotional inhibition here? I thought the whole point of pre- meditated versus a crime of passion insinuates that if one thinks about it first it is no longer a crime of passion(emotional inhibition). It seems to me the whole argument against him is that he used a gun, would he still be wrong if he used a bat to destroy computer? how bout a knife? what if he donated it to charity? She still wouldn't have use of said computer, why is he wrong just because he used a gun?
 
  • #98
Guns kill people (who don't respect them).

Just from watching him trip over words in the video its clear he rehearsed it in his mind, no question of premeditation there.
 
  • #99
feathermoon said:
Guns kill people (who don't respect them).

Just from watching him trip over words in the video its clear he rehearsed it in his mind, no question of premeditation there.

If you read the interview, previously in this thread, you will see that she was warned. Being warned suggests pre-meditation, pre-meditation goes against emotional inhibition.

And guns don't kill people, people kill people. But I do agree, that if he hadnt used a gun the emotional outbursts of critics would have been dissapated.
 
  • #100
You're knitpicking definitions to defend your side of the argument. It demonstrates desperation.

Pre meditated has nothing to do with inhibition; it's still loss of control if an addict takes that hit of crack, even if he's meditated on that hit for weeks.

If he would have yelled at her or just embarassed get publically on YouTube, it still would have been the same reaction from those of us who actually study effective vs ineffective parenting styles. You demonstrate control, you have discussions, you don't give up and shoot things just because it's "not working". It not going to show that it's worked until they've been around a good role model for 20 years. It takes a lot of patience.
 
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