News Federal Judge Strikes Down Part of Obamacare Law

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A federal judge has ruled that the mandatory healthcare penalty in the health care reform act is unconstitutional, stating that the government cannot compel individuals to purchase healthcare or impose penalties for non-compliance. This ruling marks a significant challenge to Congress' authority under the Commerce Clause, which has not been limited since the New Deal era. The case is expected to be appealed, with 28 state Attorneys General involved, and the debate is likely to extend into Congress regarding funding and the IRS's role in the bill. While two out of three federal courts have upheld the mandate, this ruling has sparked discussions about the implications for individual rights and the responsibilities of the uninsured. The outcome of this case could have far-reaching effects on healthcare policy and the federal government's regulatory powers.
talk2glenn
This is breaking, and completely unexpected (by me, that is).

The lower courts haven't tried to limit Congress' authority under Commerce since the New Deal, as far as I know. It is now within the realm of possibility that Congress may have finally overstepped its tolerable authority in the eyes of the court.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...parts-of-health-care-reform-unconstitutional/
 
Physics news on Phys.org
(I merged the two threads, since you have different links posted)
 
There will be an appeal, I'm sure.
 
berkeman said:
(I merged the two threads, since you have different links posted)

Thank you.
 
lisab said:
There will be an appeal, I'm sure.

This will be in the courts for a long time - something like 28 state Attorneys General involved. I think the bigger battle in the next few months will be in Congress over funding of the Bill -a massive expansion of the IRS is currently on the table.
 
At this point, two out of three Federal courts have upheld the mandate. One of them was also in Virginia.
 
Ivan Seeking said:
At this point, two out of three Federal courts have upheld the mandate.

To clarify, are you saying that at this point, 1 Federal court has struck down this mandate?
 
WhoWee said:
To clarify, are you saying that at this point, 1 Federal court has struck down this mandate?

Yes. Two thumbs up, one thumbs down.
 
  • #11
In the end, the judge severed the mandated minimum coverage provision from the health-care reform act and denied plaintiff's claim that inapplicability of the Commerce clause to individuals invalidates the entire act.

I feel that the mandated minimum requirement will be upheld. For instance, the permission to operate a motor vehicle is not a "right" - it is a privilege. Here in Maine, if you don't carry liability insurance on your vehicle, you cannot register it or (legally) operate it. Uninsured people who made the decision not to purchase insurance or who cancel it soon after obtaining an insurance card that allows them to register their vehicles are putting the general public at risk, as well as the insurance companies of innocent people that they injure through accident or negligence.

Redistribution of financial risk by the uninsured is not a small thing. My uncle was very badly injured by an uninsured driver several years ago and had to undergo extensive and expensive surgeries. He can hobble around now without crutches, but it is always in pain, and it affects his ability to conduct his business (HVAC). Since he is self-employed he had limited resources while he was under treatment. It takes years to get any kind of disability claim processed through SSDI, so by the time he managed to get any financial help from them, they owed him back-payments. When his doctor released him to go back to work with some restrictions, SSDI contacted him and told him that he must pay back the entire sum of the back-payments. Now he'll be tied up in appeals, paying lawyers and expert witnesses to avoid being victimized yet again.
 
  • #12
turbo-1 said:
In the end, the judge severed the mandated minimum coverage provision from the health-care reform act and denied plaintiff's claim that inapplicability of the Commerce clause to individual invalidates the entire act.

I feel that the mandated minimum requirement will be upheld. For instance, the permission to operate a motor vehicle is not a "right" - it is a privilege. Here in Maine, if you don't carry liability insurance on your vehicle, you cannot register it or (legally) operate it. Uninsured people who made the decision not to purchase insurance or who cancel it soon after obtaining an insurance card that allows them to register their vehicles are putting the general public at risk, as well as the insurance companies of innocent people that they injure through accident or negligence.

Redistribution of financial risk by the uninsured is not a small thing. My uncle was very badly injured by an uninsured driver several years ago and had to undergo extensive and expensive surgeries. He can hobble around now without crutches, but it is always in pain, and it affects his ability to conduct his business (HVAC). Since he is self-employed he had limited resources while he was under treatment. It takes years to get any kind of disability claim processed through SSDI, so by the time he managed to get any financial help from them, they owed him back-payments. When his doctor released him to go back to work with some restrictions, SSDI contacted him and told him that he must pay back the entire sum of the back-payments. Now he'll be tied up appeals, paying lawyers and expert witnesses to avoid being victimized yet again.

I don't think this can be compared to auto insurance. I can opt out of car insurance, I just won't be able to drive. The government can't require us to insure our bodies. That's a bit much.
 
  • #13
turbo-1 said:
In the end, the judge severed the mandated minimum coverage provision from the health-care reform act and denied plaintiff's claim that inapplicability of the Commerce clause to individual invalidates the entire act.

I feel that the mandated minimum requirement will be upheld. For instance, the permission to operate a motor vehicle is not a "right" - it is a privilege. Here in Maine, if you don't carry liability insurance on your vehicle, you cannot register it or (legally) operate it. Uninsured people who made the decision not to purchase insurance or who cancel it soon after obtaining an insurance card that allows them to register their vehicles are putting the general public at risk, as well as the insurance companies of innocent people that they injure through accident or negligence.

Redistribution of financial risk by the uninsured is not a small thing. My uncle was very badly injured by an uninsured driver several years ago and had to undergo extensive and expensive surgeries. He can hobble around now without crutches, but it is always in pain, and it affects his ability to conduct his business (HVAC). Since he is self-employed he had limited resources while he was under treatment. It takes years to get any kind of disability claim processed through SSDI, so by the time he managed to get any financial help from them, they owed him back-payments. When his doctor released him to go back to work with some restrictions, SSDI contacted him and told him that he must pay back the entire sum of the back-payments. Now he'll be tied up appeals, paying lawyers and expert witnesses to avoid being victimized yet again.

Does the law require that you purchase a car? Does the law require that you have a driver's license? Does the law require that you learn to drive? Does the law require that you drive a car?

The answer is no - the law basically says if you choose to have a vehicle and operate it - then you must have insurance to protect other people from your actions.
 
  • #14
We'll see what happens. The VA AG argued that Congress could not apply the commerce clause to individuals, but what have the hospitals to say about that? Their situation does not appear to have been considered in this narrow ruling. Requiring hospitals to provide emergency care to uninsured individuals certainly impacts their ability to conduct commerce, and that costs billions every year, according to the Secretary's response. Still she focused on the very narrow question of the motivation of Congress to impost a mandate. The health care industry has some pretty big shoes to drop, IMO, and will likely be filing amicus briefs of behalf of the Secretary as the case moves up the appeals chain.
 
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  • #15
drankin said:
I don't think this can be compared to auto insurance. I can opt out of car insurance, I just won't be able to drive. The government can't require us to insure our bodies. That's a bit much.

Unless you choose to opt out of living.

I think this is the most important distinction to be made. This is the first time the U.S. federal government has tried to force its populous to purchase a product or service under penalty of law. It will often reward someone with a tax break, but never penalize someone with a fee.

Simply being alive is enough to require that you buy something.
 
  • #16
turbo-1 said:
Redistribution of financial risk by the uninsured is not a small thing. My uncle was very badly injured by an uninsured driver several years ago and had to undergo extensive and expensive surgeries. He can hobble around now without crutches, but it is always in pain, and it affects his ability to conduct his business (HVAC). Since he is self-employed he had limited resources while he was under treatment. It takes years to get any kind of disability claim processed through SSDI, so by the time he managed to get any financial help from them, they owed him back-payments. When his doctor released him to go back to work with some restrictions, SSDI contacted him and told him that he must pay back the entire sum of the back-payments. Now he'll be tied up in appeals, paying lawyers and expert witnesses to avoid being victimized yet again.

I understand your arguments turbo-1, but just because one can make an argument that everyone should buy health insurance doesn't mean the government has the actual power to force people to.

That's why the Constitution includes the amendment process. There have been multiple times in this nation's history where the Constitution was found to be wrong or in need of some additions or in need of a change or upgrade, which is why we can amend it.

The Constitution exists to limit the powers of the Federal government. It says the Federal government can only do this, this, and that, with some broad interpretations here and there, not that the Federal government can do whatever it wants with a few minor exceptions.

Just because one sees a law or policy as reasonable doesn't mean it is constitutional. The inverse also is true: just because something was constitutional didn't mean it was reasonable (or morally right).
 
  • #17
turbo-1 said:
We'll see what happens. The VA AG argued that Congress could not apply the commerce clause to individuals, but what have the hospitals to say about that? Their situation does not appear to have been considered in this narrow ruling. Requiring hospitals to provide emergency care to uninsured individuals certainly impacts their ability to conduct commerce, and that costs billions every year, according to the Secretary's response. Still she focused on the very narrow question of the motivation of Congress to impost a mandate. The health care industry has some pretty big shoes to drop, IMO, and will likely be filing amicus briefs on behalf of behalf of the Secretary as the case moves up the appeals chain.

Let's not forget that hospitals are licensed and highly regulated. Additionally, their fee structure is basically dictated by Medicare reimbursement schedules (already).
 
  • #18
Also, if i end up in ER and don't have insurance, I end up paying the ER bill anyway. If I can pay for insurance then I must be able to make payments. If people that go to ER can't pay for it, then it's likely they can't pay for insurance either. IMO.
 
  • #20
drankin said:
Also, if i end up in ER and don't have insurance, I end up paying the ER bill anyway. If I can pay for insurance then I must be able to make payments. If people that go to ER can't pay for it, then it's likely they can't pay for insurance either. IMO.

Wow, you must have not seen a hospital bill lately! In my experience, (hospital bills) >> (insurance premiums)
 
  • #21
turbo-1 said:
Let's review in part how those fee structures came about, and the current lack of transparency regarding the rates that are negotiated with private insurers.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/26/how-medicare-sets-hospital-prices-a-primer/

I read some this article. I'm at work so I can't read it all just yet. I have never seen a price list at a hospital. Maybe this is something that should be available by law to the public?
 
  • #22
lisab said:
Wow, you must have not seen a hospital bill lately! In my experience, (hospital bills) >> (insurance premiums)

Not sure what you mean. I have a wife, so I see my share of hospital bills. :)
 
  • #23
drankin said:
I read some this article. I'm at work so I can't read it all just yet. I have never seen a price list at a hospital. Maybe this is something that should be available by law to the public?

The information is available to the public. Start here and Google Medicare Fee Schedules and Medicare Reimbursements for a lot more.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/solutions-managing-your-practice/coding-billing-insurance/medicare/the-medicare-physician-payment-schedule.shtml
 
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  • #24
WhoWee said:
The information is available to the public. Start here and Google Medicare Fee Schedules and Medicare Reimbursements for a lot more.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/solutions-managing-your-practice/coding-billing-insurance/medicare/the-medicare-physician-payment-schedule.shtml

I guess I mean a literal list of pricing for the general public that is not on medicare. It may be a state by state deal. A quick google search got a price list of a hospital in Ohio: http://www.stlukeshospital.com/pg_about/patient.price.list.pdf

I'll look at comparing it with medicare tonight.
 
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  • #25
drankin said:
I guess I mean a literal list of pricing for the general public that is not on medicare. It may be a state by state deal. A quick google search got a price list of a hospital in Ohio: http://www.stlukeshospital.com/pg_about/patient.price.list.pdf

I'll look at comparing it with medicare tonight.

To cut through the rhetoric, insurance companies negotiate "network discounts" with providers (volume buying power) and the Medicare reimbursement schedule is the running track for all pricing. The Government is already VERY involved in health care.
 
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  • #26
turbo-1 said:
I feel that the mandated minimum requirement will be upheld. For instance, the permission to operate a motor vehicle is not a "right" - it is a privilege. Here in Maine, if you don't carry liability insurance on your vehicle, you cannot register it or

You've missed two points here:

1) You are licensed to drive by your state, not the federal government. The federal government has limited, enumerated powers. The states do not; they are restricted only by the bill of rights.

2) The insurance mandate is a form of involuntary market participation. This is unprecedented. Maine requires all drivers carry insurance, not all state residents. This is a huge distinction - the basis of the law in America (in almost every case) is action, reaction. Very rarely does the law punish you for inaction.

Two thumbs up, one thumbs down.

It was always anticipated (by me at least, and I imagine most people observing these law suits) that the initial rulings would all be negative. The lower courts are bound by precedent, and frankly, legal precedent gives the Congress wide berth under Commerce. The Supreme Court has only ruled against Congress under Commerce twice since the New Deal, that I'm aware of, in US v Lopez and US v Morrison, both of which are pretty famous cases (one was gun-free school zones and the other a violence against women act).

But I was wrong; a lower court did rule against the Government in the Lopez case, but not in the Morrison case. Nonetheless, it is extremely unusual for the lower courts to step on the toes of Congress. Slightly less usual in the case of the higher courts since the mid-90's, but even where they've ruled against congress, it's been on activities that were clearly not commercial in nature (local criminal conduct in both cases).
 
  • #27
talk2glenn said:
You've missed two points here:

1) You are licensed to drive by your state, not the federal government. The federal government has limited, enumerated powers. The states do not; they are restricted only by the bill of rights.

2) The insurance mandate is a form of involuntary market participation. This is unprecedented. Maine requires all drivers carry insurance, not all state residents. This is a huge distinction - the basis of the law in America (in almost every case) is action, reaction. Very rarely does the law punish you for inaction.



It was always anticipated (by me at least, and I imagine most people observing these law suits) that the initial rulings would all be negative. The lower courts are bound by precedent, and frankly, legal precedent gives the Congress wide berth under Commerce. The Supreme Court has only ruled against Congress under Commerce twice since the New Deal, that I'm aware of, in US v Lopez and US v Morrison, both of which are pretty famous cases (one was gun-free school zones and the other a violence against women act).

But I was wrong; a lower court did rule against the Government in the Lopez case, but not in the Morrison case. Nonetheless, it is extremely unusual for the lower courts to step on the toes of Congress. Slightly less usual in the case of the higher courts since the mid-90's, but even where they've ruled against congress, it's been on activities that were clearly not commercial in nature (local criminal conduct in both cases).

Does anyone think the President now wishes he didn't scold the Court during his address to Congress - the balance of power might just save us in the end - IMO.
 
  • #28
drankin said:
I guess I mean a literal list of pricing for the general public that is not on medicare. It may be a state by state deal. A quick google search got a price list of a hospital in Ohio: http://www.stlukeshospital.com/pg_about/patient.price.list.pdf

I'll look at comparing it with medicare tonight.
I spent about 5 years as IT manager for a large medical practice. Believe me, the public has absolutely no knowledge of what "payments" and fee schedules are negotiated with medical practices or hospitals. In the case of our practice (ophthalmology, with specialists in plastic surgery, retinal surgery, and vision -corrective surgery) insurance companies often "negotiated" expensive procedures by withholding valid reimbursement claims for a month, 2 months, 3 months... If your receivables get too aged, your bank slashes your line of credit, so you can kiss that new surgical laser goodbye. The insurance companies would reject claim after claim, saying that our staff hadn't coded procedures properly. The last thing the insurance companies would allow is transparency regarding the actual claims rates they pay and how they "negotiate" those rates. It's like making sausage.
 
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  • #29
WhoWee said:
To cut through the rhetoric, insurance companies negotiate "network discounts" with providers (volume buying power) and the Medicare reimbursement schedule is the running track for all pricing. The Government is already VERY involved in health care.

It's in the interest of the insurance companies to keep those details on the DL. It would be nice to know what a the retail prices are compared to what deal my insurance company gets. And compare it again with what medicare mandates.
 
  • #30
turbo-1 said:
I spent about 5 years as IT manager for a large medical practice. Believe me, the public has absolutely no knowledge of what "payments" and fee schedules are negotiated with medical practices or hospitals. In the case of our practice (ophthalmology, with specialists in plastic surgery, retinal surgery, and vision -corrective surgery) insurance companies often "negotiated" expensive procedures by withholding valid reimbursement claims for a month, 2 months, 3 months... If your receivables get too aged, your bank slashes your line of credit, so you can kiss that new surgical laser goodbye. They would reject claim after claim, saying that our staff hadn't coded procedures properly. The last thing the insurance companies would allow is transparency regarding the actual claims rates they pay and how they "negotiate" those rates. It's like making sausage.

I agree.
 
  • #31
turbo-1 said:
I spent about 5 years as IT manager for a large medical practice. Believe me, the public has absolutely no knowledge of what "payments" and fee schedules are negotiated with medical practices or hospitals. In the case of our practice (ophthalmology, with specialists in plastic surgery, retinal surgery, and vision -corrective surgery) insurance companies often "negotiated" expensive procedures by withholding valid reimbursement claims for a month, 2 months, 3 months... If your receivables get too aged, your bank slashes your line of credit, so you can kiss that new surgical laser goodbye. The insurance companies would reject claim after claim, saying that our staff hadn't coded procedures properly. The last thing the insurance companies would allow is transparency regarding the actual claims rates they pay and how they "negotiate" those rates. It's like making sausage.

Do you honestly believe that "health care reform legislation" streamlines the billing process? Also, why did your staff keep making the same type of coding errors - was the process confusing - do you think Medicare guidelines (and I know the coding is different) had anything to do with the system?

If you want to have a serious discussion about IT and billing - let's do so.

Is anyone familiar with the health IT component of of the American Recovery & Reimbursement Act? The Stimulus Bill appropriates $19 Billionto encourage healthcare organizations to adopt and effectively utilize Electronic Health Records. The second part of the Act calls for $17 Billion in incentives payments to physicians and hospitals.

We might want to start a separate thread to discuss this important topic?
 
  • #33
Here's more
http://www.hhs.gov/recovery/reports/index.html#grant
 
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  • #34
WhoWee said:
To clarify, are you saying that at this point, 1 Federal court has struck down this mandate?

Ivan Seeking said:
Yes. Two thumbs up, one thumbs down.
The Richmond, Va court opted to not (yet) issue an injunction order against the mandate part of the law either, even though the judge found the mandate unconstitutional.
 
  • #35
drankin said:
It's in the interest of the insurance companies to keep those details on the DL. It would be nice to know what a the retail prices are compared to what deal my insurance company gets. And compare it again with what medicare mandates.

Good luck; negotiated rates are proprietary. Anecdotally (as in, in my experience going to the doctor), it seems to be a discount of between 20% and 40%, depending on the service. The more routine services appear to have a greater discount. Maybe somebody else is getting a better deal :P

In the case of our practice (ophthalmology, with specialists in plastic surgery, retinal surgery, and vision -corrective surgery) insurance companies often "negotiated" expensive procedures by withholding valid reimbursement claims for a month, 2 months, 3 months...

This is nonsense. If an insurance company withheld payment on valid claims, it would be in tremendous trouble with local regulators and civilly liable to your practice. If it did so to influence negotiated rate discussions, it would run afoul of federal anti-trust legislation, and face even more civil liability.

Please provide a source for any kind of systemic conduct of this kind in the insurance industry. Your practices failure to code claims properly in some cases doesn't imply a conspiracy, and the absence of any facts in your post make the claim impossible to test.
 
  • #36
WhoWee said:
This will be in the courts for a long time - something like 28 state Attorneys General involved. I think the bigger battle in the next few months will be in Congress over funding of the Bill -a massive expansion of the IRS is currently on the table.

On a conference call this afternoon, Brian Gottstein, communications director for Virginia attorney general Ken Cuccinelli, said one to two years is the best guess: About one year if the Supreme Court agrees to take the case directly from the district court, two if the case is heard first by the Fourth Circuit (and minus a few months if it goes straight to en banc consideration by all the judges on the Fourth Circuit, bypassing a three-judge panel).
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/255199/whats-next-virginia-case-daniel-foster

Cuccinelli immediately just sent a letter to the US AG requesting the case go directly to the US Supreme Court. If Holder agrees, we should have a decision in year.
 
  • #37
talk2glenn said:
This is nonsense. If an insurance company withheld payment on valid claims, it would be in tremendous trouble with local regulators and civilly liable to your practice. If it did so to influence negotiated rate discussions, it would run afoul of federal anti-trust legislation, and face even more civil liability.

Please provide a source for any kind of systemic conduct of this kind in the insurance industry. Your practices failure to code claims properly in some cases doesn't imply a conspiracy, and the absence of any facts in your post make the claim impossible to test.

Nonsense is correct - the insurance industry is rated by AM Best and others.

Here's more information about health care strategies and the Government.
http://www.hhs.gov/recovery/programs/cer/cerannualrpt.pdf

"V. STRATEGIC FRAMEWORK FOR CER
There are countless opportunities for action and investment in CER. Many Federal, state, and private institutions are already involved in CER and have made choices about which of these activities and investments to pursue. After completing the draft definition and criteria for prioritization of potential CER investments, the Council recognized the need to develop a strategic framework for CER activity and investments to categorize current activity, identify gaps, and inform decisions on high-priority recommendations.
This framework represents a comprehensive, coordinated approach to CER priorities. It is intended to support immediate decisions for investment in CER priorities and to provide a comprehensive foundation for longer-term strategic decisions on CER priorities and the related infrastructure. At the framework’s core is responsiveness to expressed needs for comparative effectiveness research to inform health care decision-making by patients, clinicians, and others in the clinical and public health communities. The framework will be supported by detailed inventories of Federal CER activities and research/data infrastructure, and a priority-setting approach. This organizing framework fosters consideration of the balance of activities and priority themes, focuses on the most pressing needs expressed by patients and clinicians, and allows for identifying and addressing gaps in the current landscape of CER.
CER activities and investments made by the government or other institutions can be grouped into four major Core Categories:

Research includes activities or investments in primary research or meta-analysis. Organizations involved in this group of activities may be funding research, conducting research themselves, or helping to establish a common set of research priorities to create momentum around the most critical research topics.

Human and Scientific Capital includes activities or investments that enhance the United States’ capacity for CER by expanding and strengthening relevant research skills or by advancing CER approaches and methodologies. Organizations involved in this group of activities may be directly involved in training and workforce development, developing new CER methods, validating results of CER, or driving consensus on valid approaches to CER.

CER Data Infrastructure includes activities or investments that develop, build, or maintain data infrastructure, systems, or tools. These investments could include the creation of new research data sets and repositories, aggregation of existing data sources, development of new tools to query and analyze existing data sets, or creation of standards for new data collection.
25

Dissemination and Translation of CER includes activities or investments that disseminate CER findings and put them into practice. Activities and investments range from dissemination and distribution of CER information to improving processes and outcomes in health care and public health delivery systems through CER translation and adoption.
Table 1 Example Activities in Each Major Category
Activity
Examples
Research
Comparing outcomes of treatments or care delivery for a specific condition
Human & Scientific Capital
Training new researchers to conduct CER or developing CER methodology and standards
CER Data Infrastructure
Developing a distributed practice-based data network, linked administrative or EHR databases, or patient registries
Dissemination and Translation of CER
Building tools and methods to disseminate findings and translate CER into practice to improve health outcomes for patients
Furthermore, investments or activities focused on a specific priority theme can cut across these categories. The potential themes include:

Conditions. Organizing investments and activities around a condition or disease state is common in research and reflects the organization of medical practice. Focusing on a single disease state across all four major categories of activity (e.g., funding primary CER in oncology, developing new methodologies for CER in palliative care settings, expanding the Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End Result database (SEER), and partnering with an academic cancer center to pilot CER implementation strategies) could result in significantly improved patient-centered outcomes in that disease area.

Patient populations. While clinical research is relevant to the patient population it is designed to address, it often provides little information relevant to patient groups not typically enrolled in clinical studies. In private-sector-funded trials, this often includes the elderly, racial and ethnic minorities, children, and persons with disabilities. The NIH, however, already requires that all publicly funded trials include appropriate numbers of women and racial and ethnic minorities. Cross-cutting activities and investments that facilitate studies responsive to the needs of these populations can ensure that all Americans benefit from CER.

Type of intervention. Several potential areas of focus emerge from studying interventions by type. In defining CER, the Council specifically included the following types of interventions: medications, medical and assistive devices, procedures, behavioral change, diagnostic testing, and delivery system strategies. Each of these has unique opportunities for coordinated investment in data infrastructure, research, building
26
research capacity, and translation. In addition, one could focus on interventions at a stage of the disease (i.e., prevention, diagnosis, treatment, and management).
Together, these activities and themes make up the CER strategic framework (Figure 1).
Agencies or organizations that are engaged in CER will often make investments in one group of activities or across multiple groups within a cross-cutting theme. The pattern of activity and investment for a single organization highlights its strategy. For example, a medical information database company may concentrate its CER activities in data infrastructure, whereas the National Cancer Institute is involved in multiple types of activities with a focus on cancer. When patterns of activity for the most critical agencies and organizations involved in CER are viewed in aggregate, the CER framework reveals gaps in CER activities and investments. These gaps are potential areas of opportunity and impact for the Secretary’s ARRA funds. As such, the framework is useful for determining what investments are appropriate for ARRA funds and for future Federal investments in CER, as well as for codifying the ongoing activities of Federal agencies involved in comparative effectiveness research."


...for the "Strategic Framework" chart - see page 27.
 
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  • #38
WhoWee said:
Do you honestly believe that "health care reform legislation" streamlines the billing process? Also, why did your staff keep making the same type of coding errors - was the process confusing - do you think Medicare guidelines (and I know the coding is different) had anything to do with the system?
If you are familiar with insurance companies and they way they handle claims, you know that they set up moving targets so they can deny and delay claims on technicalities, especially in regard to more extensive procedures. We had the finest ophthalmic coding staff in the region, and they were trained and retrained periodically, especially when we knew coding requirements by the various carriers were coming down the line.

WhoWee said:
If you want to have a serious discussion about IT and billing - let's do so.

Is anyone familiar with the health IT component of of the American Recovery & Reimbursement Act? The Stimulus Bill appropriates $19 Billionto encourage healthcare organizations to adopt and effectively utilize Electronic Health Records. The second part of the Act calls for $17 Billion in incentives payments to physicians and hospitals.

We might want to start a separate thread to discuss this important topic?
Nothing in that Act addresses how insurance companies routinely deny and delay claims. The sad and all-too-routine holdups in payments practiced by the insurance companies are friction in health-care, and those holdups cost us a lot of money. They cost the doctors interest, loss of lines of credit, and loss of profit. Also, every dollar denied in legitimate claims has to be made up from other patients. Your health care costs 'way more than it ought to because of the coercive tactics of the insurance companies.

A good friend of mine is an ophthalmic pediatrician, and he went out on his own and started his own practice. Much of his practice is Medicaid patients. His practice is doing well financially, because the public programs don't change coding requirements constantly, so his reimbursements are consistent, unlike doctors who have do deal with patients whose insurance companies play games and withhold payments. His staffing levels are light, and his office manager is not stressed. She is my cousin, and she left the big practice to start up his practice and manage his office. Bill isn't the only doctor around to have publicly (as in letter-to-the-editor public) supported a robust public option. My primary care physician does as well, as does my wife's primary care doc.

This information is apocryphal, so you'll probably reject it out of hand unless you are friends with some doctors who have small private practices. If so, you'll know that it's true, and that many small practices have had to opt out of participating in private insurance plans that are the worst offenders.
 
  • #39
turbo-1 said:
If you are familiar with insurance companies and they way they handle claims, you know that they set up moving targets so they can deny and delay claims on technicalities, especially in regard to more extensive procedures. We had the finest ophthalmic coding staff in the region, and they were trained and retrained periodically, especially when we knew coding requirements by the various carriers were coming down the line.

Nothing in that Act addresses how insurance companies routinely deny and delay claims. The sad and all-too-routine holdups in payments practiced by the insurance companies are friction in health-care, and those holdups cost us a lot of money. They cost the doctors interest, loss of lines of credit, and loss of profit. Also, every dollar denied in legitimate claims has to be made up from other patients. Your health care costs 'way more than it ought to because of the coercive tactics of the insurance companies.

A good friend of mine is an ophthalmic pediatrician, and he went out on his own and started his own practice. Much of his practice is Medicaid patients. His practice is doing well financially, because the public programs don't change coding requirements constantly, so his reimbursements are consistent, unlike doctors who have do deal with patients whose insurance companies play games and withhold payments. His staffing levels are light, and his office manager is not stressed. She is my cousin, and she left the big practice to start up his practice and manage his office. Bill isn't the only doctor around to have publicly (as in letter-to-the-editor public) supported a robust public option. My primary care physician does as well, as does my wife's primary care doc.

This information is apocryphal, so you'll probably reject it out of hand unless you are friends with some doctors who have small private practices. If so, you'll know that it's true, and that many small practices have had to opt out of participating in private insurance plans that are the worst offenders.

AM Best insurance rating...
http://www.ambest.com/ratings/methodology.asp

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0900665

"Beginning in 2011, Medicare and Medicaid will provide financial incentives over multiple years of up to $40,000 to $65,000 per eligible physician and up to $11 million per hospital for “meaningful” use of health information technology, such as the electronic exchange of data and reporting of clinical quality measures. Starting in 2015, physicians and hospitals that do not use certified products in a meaningful way will be penalized. The Congressional Budget Office projects that the incentives will boost the proportions of physicians and hospitals adopting comprehensive electronic health records by 2019 to 90% and 70%, respectively, from the 65% and 45% that would be expected to do so anyway.4

"
 
  • #40
turbo-1 said:
A good friend of mine is an ophthalmic pediatrician, and he went out on his own and started his own practice. Much of his practice is Medicaid patients. His practice is doing well financially, ...
Medicaid, a single payer system, is unsustainable. Medicare, a single payer system, is unsustainable with current http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662" . Dirigo health in Maine was a state run health system, also unsustainable and now failed.
 
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  • #41
By the way, one of the worst offenders for denial of claims and recission of coverage is Wellpoint/Anthem. That's the insurer for my wife's employer. Thanks to them, I had to spend hours on the phone with her doctor's office, the lab at the hospital, and the insurance company to avoid paying hundreds of dollars in valid claims for diagnostic testing. I finally got on the phone with a supervisor at Anthem, and told her that her company was wrongfully denying a claim and explained what I knew about coding and denials. She told me to have the lab re-submit. No recoding, no nothing. They paid for the tests.
 
  • #42
mheslep said:
Medicaid, a single payer system, is unsustainable. Medicare, a single payer system, is unsustainable. Dirigo health in Maine was a state run health system, also unsustainable and now failed.
Can you provide proof that they are unsustainable?
 
  • #43
turbo-1 said:
By the way, one of the worst offenders for denial of claims and recission of coverage is Wellpoint/Anthem. That's the insurer for my wife's employer. Thanks to them, I had to spend hours on the phone with her doctor's office, the lab at the hospital, and the insurance company to avoid paying hundreds of dollars in valid claims for diagnostic testing. I finally got on the phone with a supervisor at Anthem, and told her that her company was wrongfully denying a claim and explained what I knew about coding and denials. She told me to have the lab re-submit. No recoding, no nothing. They paid for the tests.

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/press-release/wlp_a-m-best-affirms-ratings-of-wellpoint-inc-and-its-subsidiaries-941580.html

"A.M. Best Co. has affirmed the financial strength ratings (FSR) and issuer credit ratings (ICR) of various insurance subsidiaries of WellPoint, Inc. (WellPoint) (Indianapolis, IN) [NYSE: WLP].
Additionally, A.M. Best has upgraded the FSRs to A (Excellent) from A- (Excellent) and the ICRs to "a+" from "a-" of Blue Cross Blue Shield of Wisconsin and Compcare Health Services Insurance Corporation (both of Milwaukee, WI). A.M. Best also has upgraded the ICRs to "a+" from "a" and affirmed the FSR of A (Excellent) of Anthem Insurance Companies, Inc (Indianapolis, IN), Anthem Health Plans of Maine, Inc., HMO Maine, Anthem Health Plans of New Hampshire, Inc. and Matthew Thornton Health Plan.
"
 
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  • #44
WhoWee said:
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/press-release/wlp_a-m-best-affirms-ratings-of-wellpoint-inc-and-its-subsidiaries-941580.html

"A.M. Best Co. has affirmed the financial strength ratings (FSR) and issuer credit ratings (ICR) of various insurance subsidiaries of WellPoint, Inc. (WellPoint) (Indianapolis, IN) [NYSE: WLP].
Additionally, A.M. Best has upgraded the FSRs to A (Excellent) from A- (Excellent) and the ICRs to "a+" from "a-" of Blue Cross Blue Shield of Wisconsin and Compcare Health Services Insurance Corporation (both of Milwaukee, WI). A.M. Best also has upgraded the ICRs to "a+" from "a" and affirmed the FSR of A (Excellent) of Anthem Insurance Companies, Inc (Indianapolis, IN), Anthem Health Plans of Maine, Inc., HMO Maine, Anthem Health Plans of New Hampshire, Inc. and Matthew Thornton Health Plan.
"
Financial strength rating? That's deflecting the relevant issue entirely. Wellpoint has been under attack in recent years (most well-publicized in California) for making recissions while raising rates at ~15X the rate of inflation. I don't care how rich they are - just how they get that rich. It's like you're advocating for Halliburton and KBR based on their bottom-line.
 
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  • #45
turbo-1 said:
Can you provide proof that they are unsustainable?


Are you serious? I think President Obama said it best...

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter...says-medicare-and-medicaid-are-largest-defic/

""I think it's a very legitimate question," Obama began. "I guess that the first point I'd make is, if we don't do anything, costs are going to go out of control. Nobody disputes this. Medicare and Medicaid are the single biggest drivers of the federal deficit and the federal debt by a huge margin."
If we don't do something soon to rein in health care costs, Obama said, Medicare and Medicaid "will consume all of the federal budget."

We decided to check his statement that "Medicare and Medicaid are the single biggest drivers of the federal deficit and the federal debt by a huge margin."

We consulted a number of experts, both left-leaning and right-leaning, and they agreed that over the long term, Medicare and Medicaid, along with Social Security — the programs popularly known as "entitlements" — will indeed overwhelm the federal budget and are the main drivers of the deficit. (Of the three programs, Medicare is the largest by a significant margin.)

But there's also some explaining to do about Obama's statement.

When he talks about Medicare and Medicaid driving the deficit, he's not talking about 2009. The 2009 deficit will be powered primarily by the economic downturn, both spending on stimulus and bailouts, and lost tax revenues from the lack of economic activity. The Bush tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the recent Medicare prescription drug benefit have also created gaps between spending and revenues in recent years.

But Obama's singling out of Medicare and Medicaid is true over a much longer window of time, say, over the next 50 to 75 years. "


Again, if you want to have a serious discussion - let's have it.
 
  • #46
turbo-1 said:
Financial strength rating? That's deflecting the relevant issue entirely. Wellpoint has been under attack in recent years (most well-publicized in California) for making recissions while raising rates at ~15X the rate of inflation. I don't care how rich they are - just how they get that rich. It's like you're advocating for Halliburton and KBR based on their bottom-line.


Please review the AM Best link I posted above - they explain their rating methodology - payment of claims is a factor in the rating.
 
  • #47
turbo-1 said:
Can you provide proof that they are unsustainable?
Medicare liabilities are were $89 trillion as of 2009.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba662
Dirigo was started in ~2003 with the promise of a one time start-up funding of $53 million, and there after it would cover all 100,000 + of Maine's uninsured. It never insured more than 10-15,000, and quickly went broke forcing the the legislature to ask for a tax increase, which was http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20081104-NEWS-81105003" . Now entry into the program is capped, as Maine has a balanced budget requirement.
http://business.mainetoday.com/news/060820bragdon.shtml
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574322401816501182.html
 
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  • #49
It was always a dumb idea to force people to buy private health insurance.

Simply make it illegal for healthcare companies to turn down people or charge them for prexisting conditions. That would be a great way to make US healthcare seriously streamline its costs. There certainly is some money to be squeezed out of the most expensive healthcare in the world, after all.
 
  • #50
wasteofo2 said:
It was always a dumb idea to force people to buy private health insurance.

Simply make it illegal for healthcare companies to turn down people or charge them for prexisting conditions.

Or just make it a government program.
Why not just make everything a government program?
 

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