Calculating Average Velocity and Acceleration of the Singapore Flyer

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The discussion centers on calculating the average velocity and acceleration of the Singapore Flyer, the world's largest Ferris wheel with a diameter of 150m and a rotation time of 30 minutes. The average velocity was initially miscalculated, with the correct answer being 0 m/s due to the circular motion returning to the starting point after one complete revolution. For average acceleration, participants debated the correct approach, with the final consensus indicating that it should be calculated over a specified time interval, leading to a value of approximately 8.73 x 10^-5 m/s². The confusion arose from misinterpretations of angular velocity and the distinction between speed and velocity as vector quantities. Ultimately, the discussion highlighted the importance of precise definitions and calculations in physics problems.
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Homework Statement



The Singapore Flyer is te world's largest Ferris wheel. It's diameter is 150m and it rotates once every 30 min.
a) Find the Magnitude of the average velocity
b) Find the average acceleration at the wheel's rim.

The Attempt at a Solution



a) |v→| = Δs/Δt=75m.2π/30mins = 15.7m min^-1 (Could it be zero? p1 = (0,75) p2= (0,75); (p2-p1)/30mins = 0ms^-1)
b)
 
Last edited:
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negation said:

Homework Statement



The Singapore Flyer is te world's largest Ferris wheel. It's diameter is 150m and it rotates once every 30 min.
a) Find the Magnitude of the average velocity
b) Find the average acceleration at the wheel's rim.

The Attempt at a Solution



a) |v→| = Δs/Δt=75m.2π/30mins = 15.7m min^-1 (Could it be zero? p1 = (0,75) p2= (0,75); (p2-p1)/30mins = 0ms^-1)
b)
What's the definition of average velocity? Is it change in displacement over time or distance over time?
 
vela said:
What's the definition of average velocity? Is it change in displacement over time or distance over time?

Yes, it's change in displacement/ change in time.
 
Right. So you should know which of your answers for part (a) is correct.
 
vela said:
Right. So you should know which of your answers for part (a) is correct.

The answer to part(a) is 0ms^-1

b) a→ = v^2/r = [r^2Θ^2/t^2]/r = rΘ^2/t^2 = 75m(2π)^2/5^2 = 118.43m min^-1
 
You found the instantaneous acceleration, but the problem asked for the average acceleration. (You didn't state it explicitly, but I assume the problem asks you for the average velocity and acceleration for one complete turn.)

Your answer for part (a) is correct.
 
vela said:
You found the instantaneous acceleration, but the problem asked for the average acceleration. (You didn't state it explicitly, but I assume the problem asks you for the average velocity and acceleration for one complete turn.)

Your answer for part (a) is correct.

I made the mistake of leaving out a vital piece of information which was "over an interval of 5 mins"

b) Find the average acceleration at the wheel's rim over an interval of 5 mins.
 
Does that apply to part (a) too? If so, you need to redo that part too.
 
vela said:
Does that apply to part (a) too? If so, you need to redo that part too.

No, it applies only to part (b)

average acceleration = delta v/ delta t?

I'm having a little confusion here.
 
  • #10
Here's another go:

a = Δv/Δt = (vf - vi )/Δt

vi = rω = 75m(0π/ 5) = 0m min^-1

vf = rω = 75m (2π/5) = 94.2m min^-1

94.2/5 = 18.8m min^-1
 
  • #11
negation said:
Here's another go:

a = Δv/Δt = (vf - vi )/Δt

vi = rω = 75m(0π/ 5) = 0m min^-1
This result would say the ferris wheel is starting from rest (v=0).

vf = rω = 75m (2π/5) = 94.2m min^-1
And this one says that it's rotating at a rate of once every 5 minutes (##2\pi## per 5 minutes).

##v=\omega r## relates the linear speed ##v## of a point a distance ##r## away from the axis of rotation with the angular speed ##\omega##. If the ferris wheel is rotating at a constant rate, the speed will be constant. You need velocity, however, which is a vector. The speed gives you the magnitude of the vector, but there's still the direction of the vectors to worry about.
 
  • #12
vela said:
This result would say the ferris wheel is starting from rest (v=0).


And this one says that it's rotating at a rate of once every 5 minutes (##2\pi## per 5 minutes).

##v=\omega r## relates the linear speed ##v## of a point a distance ##r## away from the axis of rotation with the angular speed ##\omega##. If the ferris wheel is rotating at a constant rate, the speed will be constant. You need velocity, however, which is a vector. The speed gives you the magnitude of the vector, but there's still the direction of the vectors to worry about.

Have I manage to obtain the correct answer then?
I would have thought the average acceleration is the change in velocity/change in time
 
  • #13
No, you haven't done the problem correctly. You didn't determine the velocities correctly yet.

Draw a picture of the Ferris wheel. Label the point at the bottom as t=0. Which way does the velocity point and what is its magnitude? Now consider where that point is when t=5 min. The Ferris wheel takes 30 minutes to do a complete revolution, so after 5 minutes, by how many degrees will it have rotated? Which way does the velocity now point and what is its magnitude?
 
  • #14
vela said:
No, you haven't done the problem correctly. You didn't determine the velocities correctly yet.

Draw a picture of the Ferris wheel. Label the point at the bottom as t=0. Which way does the velocity point and what is its magnitude? Now consider where that point is when t=5 min. The Ferris wheel takes 30 minutes to do a complete revolution, so after 5 minutes, by how many degrees will it have rotated? Which way does the velocity now point and what is its magnitude?

Should the point at the top be labeled as t = 0?

Untitled.jpg


aaverage→ = Δv/Δt


change in Θ = 2π/60 . 5 = 0.523 radians

ratio of change in radial displacement to change in velocity
Δr/r = Δv/v

Δr: Δr^2 = r1^2 + r2^ - 2.r1.r2 cosΘ
Δr = 38.78m

velocity = Δp/Δt
p(2) = (75 sin 0.523 , 75 cos 0.523) = (37, 65)
p(1) = (75 sin 0 , 75 cos 0) = (0 , 75 )
Δt = 5

∴[p(2) - p(1)] / 5 = | [(37 , 65 ) - ( 0 , 75) ] | /5 = | (37, -10) |/5 = 7.7ms^-1

Δv = (Δr/r). v = 4ms^-1

aaverage→ = Δv/Δt
∴4ms^-1 / 5 = 0.8ms^-2
 
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  • #15
That's not correct. First, what is ##\omega##, the angular speed of the Ferris wheel?
 
  • #16
vela said:
That's not correct. First, what is ##\omega##, the angular speed of the Ferris wheel?

ΔΘ/Δt

Why is it not?
 
  • #17
Give me a number. You use that quantity in various places, but every time you do, it's a different number. It seems like you plug in numbers at random.
 
  • #18
vela said:
Give me a number. You use that quantity in various places, but every time you do, it's a different number. It seems like you plug in numbers at random.

what is this number you want? Which variable is it for?
 
  • #19
##\omega##
 
  • #20
I thought about it and had another go with the workings. It does make complete sense to me. Why is it flawed?
 
  • #21
negation said:
I thought about it and had another go with the workings. It does make complete sense to me. Why is it flawed?

Well, for instance, the following isn't correct.
negation said:
change in Θ = 2π/60 . 5 = 0.523 radians
 
  • #22
vela said:
##\omega##

If ω = ΔΘ/Δt
and ΔΘ = 0.523 radians since 2π = 60mins, therefore, 5 mins = 0.523 radian,
and Δt = 5 mins over the 0.523 radians
then
ω= 0.1046
 
  • #23
Why do you think ##2\pi = 60\text{ minutes}##?
 
  • #24
vela said:
Why do you think ##2\pi = 60\text{ minutes}##?

I might have misread the question.
It should be ##2\pi = 30\text{ minutes}##

Is this the only blunder?
 
  • #25
No, you've made other mistakes; the biggest is using ##v_\text{avg}## for ##v##.

The magnitude of the average acceleration should turn out to be ##8.73\times 10^{-5}\text{ m/s}^2##.
 
  • #26
vela said:
No, you've made other mistakes; the biggest is using ##v_\text{avg}## for ##v##.

The magnitude of the average acceleration should turn out to be ##8.73\times 10^{-5}\text{ m/s}^2##.

How do I find v then? If it isn't v = rω nor v = dp/dt, then what other equations is there?
 
  • #27
The speed is given by ##v=\omega r##. This was your calculation:
negation said:
Here's another go:

a = Δv/Δt = (vf - vi )/Δt

vi = rω = 75m(0π/ 5) = 0m min^-1

vf = rω = 75m (2π/5) = 94.2m min^-1

94.2/5 = 18.8m min^-1
Those aren't correct. Can you see why?
 
  • #28
v = wr is linear velocity isn't it? Why is it now speed?
 
  • #29
Velocity is a vector; ##\omega r## isn't.
 
  • #30
vela said:
The speed is given by ##v=\omega r##. This was your calculation:

Those aren't correct. Can you see why?

I can see why. I misread wrongly and used 2pi = 60 mins instead of 2pi = 30 mins. I should have used the latter and worked on that information instead. My frustration is, aside from this minor effort, is the mathematical reasoning correct then?
 

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