Find A Counter-Example to This

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a conjecture regarding the product of the first x odd prime numbers, denoted as p(x), and its relationship with a positive integer i that is not divisible by any of the primes in p(x). Participants explore whether the expression 1 < p(x) ± 2*i < (p(x+1)/p(x))² always yields a prime number, seeking counter-examples to prove or disprove the conjecture.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the expression 1 < p(x) ± 2*i < (p(x+1)/p(x))² always produces a prime number, providing examples to support this claim.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on whether the goal is to find a counter-example or to prove the conjecture.
  • A participant emphasizes the need for i to be a positive integer not divisible by any of the primes in p(x) and provides an example to illustrate this condition.
  • Another suggestion is made to utilize the provided code to find counter-examples by generating primes and testing the conjecture.
  • A later reply presents a detailed argument claiming the conjecture is true, outlining a proof based on divisibility properties of the numbers involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the conjecture, with some supporting it and others seeking counter-examples. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall truth of the conjecture.

Contextual Notes

The conjecture relies on specific conditions regarding the values of p(x) and i, and the proof provided assumes certain properties of prime numbers and their divisibility, which may not be universally accepted without further verification.

Atran
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Hi!

Say p(x) is the product of the first x odd prime numbers (e.g. p(4)=3*5*7*11) and i is at least one. Then consider:
1 < p(x) ± 2*i < (p(x+1)/p(x))2

My hypothesis is that the above formula, obeying the restrictions, always produces a prime number.
For example if x=3 and i=13, then p(3)-2*13=79. 79 is bigger than 1 and smaller than 112, therefore it's a prime number.

I'm not a python programmer, but this code yields prime numbers using the above formula:

Code:
from math import ceil

def is_prime(number):
    if(number < 2):
        return False
    i = 2
    while i <= ceil(number**0.5):
        if(number%i == 0):
            return False
        i = i + 1
    return True

def f(number_of_primes):
    flag = True
    prime_product = 1
    prime_array = []

    n, i = 3, 0
    while i < number_of_primes:
        if(is_prime(n) == True):
            prime_product = prime_product * n
            prime_array.append(n)
            i = i + 1
        n = n + 1
    
    while True:
        if(is_prime(n) == True):
            largest_prime = n
            break
        n = n + 1

    i = 1
    while True:
        for x in range(len(prime_array)):
            if(i%prime_array[x] == 0):
                flag = False
                break

        if flag == False:
            flag = True
            i = i + 1
            continue
        
        n = prime_product - 2*i
        if n <= 1:
            break
        if n < largest_prime**2:
            if is_prime(n) == False:
                print("NOT : ", n, " : ", i)
                break
            else:
                print("NMB : ", n, " : ", i)
        i = i + 1

def g(number_of_primes):
    flag = True
    prime_product = 1
    prime_array = []

    n, i = 3, 0
    while i < number_of_primes:
        if(is_prime(n) == True):
            prime_product = prime_product * n
            prime_array.append(n)
            i = i + 1
        n = n + 1
    
    while True:
        if(is_prime(n) == True):
            largest_prime = n
            break
        n = n + 1

    i = 1
    while True:
        for x in range(len(prime_array)):
            if(i%prime_array[x] == 0):
                flag = False
                break

        if flag == False:
            flag = True
            i = i + 1
            continue
        
        n = prime_product + 2*i
        if n < largest_prime**2:
            if is_prime(n) == False:
                print("NOT : ", n, " : ", i)
                break
            else:
                print("NMB : ", n, " : ", i)
        else:
            break
        i = i + 1

x = 4 # Enter a non-negative integer
f(x)
print("- - - - -")
g(x)
Scroll down and assign a non-negative integer to x in the code and run it. If the program detects a non-prime then it should output "NOT" followed by the generated number. If the generated number is a prime, then it outputs "NMB". The second number after the second colon is the value of i. So the above example would be displayed as: "NMB : 79 : 13" (excluding the double quotes)

Thanks for help.
 
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What is your question? to find a counter example? or to prove your conjecture?
 
I want somebody to prove this wrong, by finding a counter example.

And I'm really sorry, I forgot to mention that i must not be divisible by any of the primes found in the product p(x).

So again,
1 < p(x) ± 2*i < (p(x+1)/p(x))2
where p(x) is the product of the first x odd prime numbers, and i is a positive integer not divisible by any prime in the product p(x).


Example: p(4) - 2*514 = 127.
514 is positive and not divisible by 3, 5, 7, or 11. And 127 is less than 169, so according to the conjecture 127 should be a prime, and it is.
 
Your best strategy here would be to let the program find the counter example by finding a list of primes for input and then running it thru its paces. Also if you could find a related program that can check for primeness of a number you could incorporate it into the mix.
 
Atran said:
I want somebody to prove this wrong, by finding a counter example.

And I'm really sorry, I forgot to mention that i must not be divisible by any of the primes found in the product p(x).

So again,
1 < p(x) ± 2*i < (p(x+1)/p(x))2
where p(x) is the product of the first x odd prime numbers, and i is a positive integer not divisible by any prime in the product p(x).


Example: p(4) - 2*514 = 127.
514 is positive and not divisible by 3, 5, 7, or 11. And 127 is less than 169, so according to the conjecture 127 should be a prime, and it is.

It's a true conjecture. Here's a proof:

First, we note that since ##p(x)## is not divisible by ##2## and ##2i## is divisible by ##2##, then ##p(x) - 2i## is not divisible by ##2##.
Second, if ##p## is an odd prime occurring in the product of ##p(x)##, then ##p## divides ##p(x)## and ##p## does not divide ##2i##, thus ##p## does not divide ##p(x) - 2i##.

So we deduce that if ##p## is any prime dividing ##p(x)-2i##, then ##p## cannot occur in ##p(x)##. Thus ##p\geq p(x+1)/p(x)##.

So, assume that ##p(x) - 2i## is composite, then there are there are two prime numbers ##p## and ##q## that divide ##p(x) - 2i##. Thus we have ##pq\leq p(x)-2i##. But we also have that ##p\geq p(x+1)/p(x)## and ##q\geq p(x+1)/p(x)##. Thus ##pq\geq (p(x+1)/p(x))^2##. So we see that
(p(x+1)/p(x))^2\leq pq\leq p(x)-2i &lt; (p(x+1)/p(x))^2
which is a contradiction.
 
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