Find the Lagrangian of a System of Particles

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a system of two point particles of mass M connected by massless levers, rotating about a pivot point. The goal is to find the Lagrangian in terms of the angle Θ, considering the kinetic and potential energies of the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the expression of kinetic energy in terms of cylindrical coordinates and the relationship between the vertical position z and the angle Θ. Questions arise about how to accurately express the kinetic energy and potential energy based on the system's configuration.

Discussion Status

Some participants have made progress in calculating the potential energy and have expressed a Lagrangian. However, there is ongoing questioning about the behavior of potential energy as the angle Θ changes, indicating a lack of consensus on the correct interpretation of the potential energy expression.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted complexity in determining the kinetic energy due to the constraints of the system and the need to express variables in terms of Θ and ω. Participants are also exploring the implications of gravitational effects on the potential energy of the masses.

CM Longhorns
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Homework Statement


Ok, so in this system, there are two point particles of mass M connected by massless levers of length L. The pair of masses pivots about the upper point and rotates about the axis at an angular frequency ω. The lower mass is constrained to slide on the vertical axis. The system is illustrated below:
Uk4c9oI.png

Find the Lagrangian in terms of Θ.

Homework Equations


I know that the Lagrangian is represented by the difference in kinetic and potential energies,
L = T - U
T = ½Mv^2,
and U should be derived from the gravitational force only,
U = Mgh,
where h is the vertical distance from the origin.

The Attempt at a Solution


I have a fundamental lack of understanding regarding finding the kinetic energy of this system. It has been suggested that I view this in cylindrical coordinates, where
x=LsinΘ
y=LcosΘ
z= z.
I intuit that the origin of my cylindrical coordinate system should reside at the pivot point above the two masses. Could someone please illuminate the subtleties in finding T? I understand conceptually the Lagrangian and the parts of the problem to follow.
 
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Hi CM, and welcome to PF :)

Does U increase if z (h) increases ?

For T you have to express v for each of the masses in terms of ##\theta## and ##\omega##. x and y you already have, so ##\dot x## and ##\dot y## aren't too difficult. You will have to do something about z, though. I can see that if ##\theta## is given, z is determined; i.e. there is a way to express z in terms of ##\theta##
 
I worked out this problem in the mean time. You are correct!
I see that the potential increases with z, which can be determined to be 2Lcosθ.
The gravitational potential energy is thus U = 3Lcosθ*mg when we account for g's effect on each mass.
The kinetic energy I have determined as well.

Then, L = T - U, and voila, we have a Lagrangian! I can now find the equation of motion in the generalized coordinate θ.
Thanks for your help; hope to see you here again :)
 
However, your expression for U decreases when ##\theta## increases from zero. I would expect it to increase; wouldn't you ?
 

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