Find the mass in static equilibrium problem involving a spring

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a rigid beam supported at its center, with a spring connecting one end to the floor. The beam is in static equilibrium at an angle due to a mass hung from the opposite end. Participants are exploring the forces and torques acting on the system, particularly focusing on the spring's behavior and the geometry of the setup.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the torque equations and the definition of the spring extension. There are questions about the geometry of the spring's position and its angle relative to the beam. Some participants express uncertainty about the correctness of the initial assumptions regarding the spring's orientation and the forces involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the geometry of the problem and questioning the assumptions made about the spring's position. There is a focus on clarifying the relationship between the spring's extension and the angles involved, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach to solving the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the spring is not vertical when the beam is at an angle, which complicates the torque calculations. There is also mention of the need to express certain angles and distances in terms of the beam's length and the angle of inclination.

sleepymia
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Homework Statement


Consider a rigid 2.60-m-long beam (see figure) that is supported by a fixed 1.30-m-high post through its center and pivots on a frictionless bearing at its center atop the vertical 1.30-m-high post. One end of the beam is connected to the floor by a spring that has a force constant k = 1100 N/m. When the beam is horizontal, the spring is vertical and unstressed. If an object is hung from the opposite end of the beam, the beam settles into an equilibrium position where it makes an angle of 22.6° with the horizontal. What is the mass of the object?
12-51.gif

Homework Equations


∑Fx=0
∑Fy=0
∑torque = 0

The Attempt at a Solution


I don't have any forces working horizontally, and I don't think I need to set up an equation for the vertical forces because I don't have the mass of any of the beams. So that leaves me to set up a torque equation:
mgcos(22.6)(L/2) = kx(L/2)
m = (kx)/(gcos(22.6))
I need to solve for x, and when I originally attempted this problem I solved for x like this:
x = (L/2)tan(22.6)
But I didn't get the correct answer for m with this x, and I think it is because I solved for x as if it was perpendicular to the dashed line in the diagram. I am currently stuck trying to find x(change in length of spring from rest)
 

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sleepymia said:
don't have any forces working horizontally,
The spring force has a horizontal component, but I agree it is not interesting because there is an unknown horizontal force from the support. Likewise, that is why vertical force balance is uninteresting.
sleepymia said:
kx(L/2)
I assume you are defining x as the extension. The spring is neither vertical nor perpendicular to the beam.
 
sleepymia said:
When the beam is horizontal, the spring is vertical and unstressed.
Welcome to the PF. :smile:

It doesn't look to me that the diagram matches this statement. Is the diagram correct (and if so, what is the offset of the spring anchor point), or is the statement correct?

EDIT -- Oops, sorry, it looks like you both are on top of it.
 
haruspex said:
The spring force has a horizontal component, but I agree it is not interesting because there is an unknown horizontal force from the support. Likewise, that is why vertical force balance is uninteresting.

I assume you are defining x as the extension. The spring is neither vertical nor perpendicular to the beam.
Yes I am defining x as extension of the spring, and the spring is at a non-right angle to the beam and not vertical since it is not at rest.
 
sleepymia said:
Yes I am defining x as extension of the spring, and the spring is at a non-right angle to the beam and not vertical since it is not at rest.
Well, it is at rest, but it is not in the original position.
Since the spring is not perpendicular to the beam, this is not the right torque:
sleepymia said:
kx(L/2)
And this is not the right extension:
sleepymia said:
x = (L/2)tan(22.6)
How long is the spring in the diagram position?
 
haruspex said:
Well, it is at fest, but it is not in the original position.
Since the spring is not perpendicular to the beam, this is not the right torque:

And this is not the right extension:

How long is the spring in the diagram position?
You're right it is at rest, my bad just not horizontal. In diagram the spring length I think would be (L/2)+x
Corrected torque of spring kx(L/2)sin(Φ), where Φ is the angle labeled in the drawing below
upload_2017-11-21_22-33-25.png
 

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sleepymia said:
In diagram the spring length I think would be (L/2)+x
No. The x is not in the same straight line as the original L/2.
Consider the point where the spring attaches to the beam in relation to its base. What is the horizontal distance? What is the vertical distance?
sleepymia said:
where Φ is the angle
Ok, but you need to express sin(Φ) in terms of L and θ.
 
haruspex said:
No. The x is not in the same straight line as the original L/2.
Consider the point where the spring attaches to the beam in relation to its base. What is the horizontal distance? What is the vertical distance?

Ok, but you need to express sin(Φ) in terms of L and θ.
Horizontal distance = (L/2)cos(22.6)
Vertical distance = (L/2)sin(22.6) + (L/2)
Edit: so torque from spring would be the perpendicular force of the spring in relation to the beam multiplied by the horizontal distance I found?
 
sleepymia said:
Horizontal distance = (L/2)cos(22.6)
No, that would be from the base of the support to the end of the beam. What is it from the base of the spring?
Having got that, what is the total length of the spring?
sleepymia said:
so torque from spring would be the perpendicular force of the spring in relation to the beam multiplied by the horizontal distance I found?
Yes, or equivalently, the force times the perpendicular distance from the spring to the axis.
 
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haruspex said:
No, that would be from the base of the support to the end of the beam. What is it from the base of the spring?
Having got that, what is the total length of the spring?

Yes, or equivalently, the force times the perpendicular distance from the spring to the axis.
Ah I understand now, thank you!
 

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