Find this sum involving a polynomial root

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the value of a sum involving the roots of a polynomial defined as P(x) = x2019 + 2019x - 1. Participants express confusion regarding the nature of the roots, particularly questioning the existence of complex roots and the implications of the polynomial's behavior within the interval (0, 1).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore various approaches to compute sums involving the roots, including the use of Girard's relations and Newton's identities. Some suggest simplifying the problem by considering a related polynomial with fewer roots.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing insights and alternative methods. Some have proposed specific calculations and substitutions, while others are still grappling with the implications of their findings. There is a recognition of different interpretations of the problem, but no explicit consensus has emerged.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the polynomial and the potential for multiple interpretations of the roots. There is also mention of specific algebraic identities that may aid in the calculations, though some express uncertainty about their application.

LCSphysicist
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Homework Statement
.
Relevant Equations
.
if x_{I}, I = {1,2,...,2019} is a root of P(x) = ##x^{2019} +2019x - 1##

Find the value of ##\sum_{1}^{2019}\frac{1}{1-\frac{1}{X_{I}}}##

I am really confused:
This polynomial jut have one root, and this root is x such that 0 < x < 1, so that each terms in the polynomial is negative. But the alternatives just give positive values.

This makes me think we need to consider the complex root of this. But i have no idea how to find them.
Maybe calling ##x = re^{i\theta}## give us:

##0 = r^{2019}e^{i2019\theta}+ 2019re^{i\theta} - 1##

?
 
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Would you know how to compute something like
$$\sum_I x_I$$
Or
$$\sum_ {I\neq J} x_I x_J$$?
 
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How about trying to solve simpler case:
x^2+2x-1=0
x=\{x_1,x_2\}
Calculate
\sum_{I=1}^{2}\frac{1}{1-\frac{1}{x_I}}
to get insight.
 
Last edited:
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Oh yeah, i forgot the Girard relations for polynomials :P
Now i get it, is 2017. THx
 
I got stuck at
$$
\sum_{i\in I}\dfrac{1}{1-\dfrac{1}{x_i}}=-\dfrac{1}{2019}\sum_{k=0}^{2018}\sum_{i\in I}x_i^k
$$
It is easy to see that the last sum is ##2019## for ##k=0## and ##0## for ##k=1##, but I have no idea how to add the sum for ##k>1##.
 
A more general problem, for integer ##N\geq 2##
x^N+Nx-1=\prod_{i=1}^N(x-x_i)
By expansion
\prod_{i=1}^N (-x_i)=-1
,
\sum_{i=1}^N \prod_{j=1,\neq i}^N (-x_i)=N
and
\sum_{1\leq i&lt;j&lt;...&lt;k\leq N} x_i x_j ... x_k =0
for from 1 to N-2 products.
S:=\sum_{i=1}^N\frac{1}{1-\frac{1}{x_i}}=\sum_{i=1}^N\frac{-x_i}{1-x_i}=\{\prod_{i=1}^N (1-x_i)\}^{-1}\sum_{i=1}^N(-x_i) \prod_{j=1,j\neq i}^N (1-x_j)
where
\prod_{i=1}^N (1-x_i)=1+N-1=N and
\sum_{i=1}^N(-x_i) \prod_{j=1,j\neq i}^N (1-x_j)=N\prod_{i=1}^N (-x_i)+(N-1)\sum_{i=1}^N \prod_{j=1,\neq i}^N (-x_i)=-N+N(N-1)=N(N-2)
So
##S=N-2##.
 
Last edited:
Fresh, you can actually solve that using this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_identities

To give an elementary example,
$$x_1^2+x_2^2 = (x_1+x_2)^2 - 2x_1x_2$$.

I wouldn't do it that way. Instead I would make some substitutions to turn the sum into something easier to compute, and get a new polynomial.

As a simple example, to compute ##1/x_1+ 1/x_2## for the polynomial $$x^2+x+3$$, you can make the substitution ##y=1/x## and you want to compute the sum of the roots of $$1/y^2 +1/y +3$$. Multiplying by ##y^2## gives you a new polynomial with the same roots since 0 is not a root of the new polynomial.

I didn't get 2017, but it's possible I made an algebra mistake.
 
Office_Shredder said:
Fresh, you can actually solve that using this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_identities

To give an elementary example,
$$x_1^2+x_2^2 = (x_1+x_2)^2 - 2x_1x_2$$.

I wouldn't do it that way. Instead I would make some substitutions to turn the sum into something easier to compute, and get a new polynomial.

As a simple example, to compute ##1/x_1+ 1/x_2## for the polynomial $$x^2+x+3$$, you can make the substitution ##y=1/x## and you want to compute the sum of the roots of $$1/y^2 +1/y +3$$. Multiplying by ##y^2## gives you a new polynomial with the same roots since 0 is not a root of the new polynomial.

I didn't get 2017, but it's possible I made an algebra mistake.
Using your substitution method I get 2017.
 

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