Finding angular speed geometrically

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding angular speed geometrically, particularly through the relationship between angular speed and linear speed using trigonometric identities and derivatives. Participants are exploring the implications of their calculations and approximations in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss deriving angular speed from geometric relationships, questioning the validity of their approximations and calculations. There is a focus on the relationship between linear and angular quantities and the potential errors in reasoning.

Discussion Status

Some participants are verifying calculations against each other, while others are reflecting on potential mistakes in their reasoning. There is acknowledgment of errors and a collaborative effort to clarify the geometric relationships involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of homework rules, which may limit the depth of exploration into the problem. There is an emphasis on ensuring that approximations made are valid within the context of the problem.

PhysHobbiest
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Homework Statement
As the title says, I was simply looking to geometrically find the angular speed of an object traveling along a line on the x axis with respect to a position at a height h on the z axis.
Relevant Equations
tan(θ) = x/h
So clearly the easiest way to relate the angular speed to the linear speed would be to start from ##\tan(θ) = x/h## and take a time derivative of both sides. However, it also shouldn't be difficult to find the angular speed geometrically. Using the diagram below one can see that:

IMG_20210130_181315.jpg


##sin(dθ) = \frac {{\sqrt {x^2+h^2}}-{\sqrt {(x-vdt)^2+h^2}}} {vdt}##

which is approximately (after a small angle approx and using the definition of the derivative)

##dθ = \frac {d} {dx} \sqrt {x^2+h^2}##

which yields

##dθ = \frac {x} {\sqrt {x^2+h^2}}##

Now this I believe is nonsense, and I'm having difficulty figuring out exactly what went wrong. Did I mess up along the way, or were the approximations I made not good ones? My guess is any approximation that would leave an infinitesimal value on only one side of the equation is a bad one. Just looking for confirmation here.
 
Last edited:
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Please check your result with my calculation.
x=h\tan\theta
\frac{dx}{dt}=h \sec^2\theta \frac{d\theta}{dt}=\frac{h^3}{h^2+x^2}\frac{d\theta}{dt}

EDIT calculation error as pointed out in #3. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
anuttarasammyak said:
Please check your result with my calculation.
x=h\tan\theta
\frac{dx}{dt}=h \sec^2\theta \frac{d\theta}{dt}=\frac{h^3}{h^2+x^2}\frac{d\theta}{dt}
Thanks for the input, I believe you accidentally inverted ##\sec^2\theta## when you expanded it out. The answer should look like

##\frac {dx} {dt} = \frac {h^2 + x^2} {h} \frac {d\theta}{dt}##

I'm aware of what the answer should be, I was simply looking for the flaw in my above reasoning. It was unsettling to me that the simple geometric reasoning I was using was yielding the nonsense that I got.
 
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The first formula in post #1
\sin(d\theta)=...
should be
\sin\theta =... ?
If so it tells just obvious
sin \theta = \frac{x}{\sqrt{x^2+h^2}}
 
Last edited:
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oof, thanks for being another set of eyes on that. I don't know how I mistaked θ with dθ there.
 
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