Finding critical points for phase planes

Click For Summary
The discussion focuses on finding critical points for the system of equations X' = x - y^2 and Y' = x^2 - xy - 2x. The user identifies (0,0) as a critical point but mistakenly believes (1,1) and (4,-2) are solutions. Clarifications emphasize that the square root function yields a single positive value, and points must satisfy both equations simultaneously. The correct approach involves substituting one equation into the other to find all critical points, confirming that (0,0) is valid while (1,1) and (4,-2) are not. The conversation concludes with a reminder of the importance of proper substitution and solving techniques in identifying critical points.
NiallBucks
Messages
7
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


X'=x-y^2 Y'=x^2 -xy -2x

Homework Equations


Find the critical point of this system.

The Attempt at a Solution


I know one point is (0,0).
When I tried it I got sqrt(x)= 2 and sqrt(x)= 1 but the point (1,1) doesn't fit later parts of the question. I'm also aware that since a sqrt can have positive and negative values then (4, -2) can also equal zero. Am I missing something obvious?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Frankly, I don't know what you mean by "When I tried it I got sqrt(x)= 2..." When you tried what? And why write "sqrt(x)= 2" rather than "x= 4"? In any case, a critical point of the system will be where x'= x- y^2= 0 and y'= x^2- xy- 2x= 0. From the first equation, x= y^2. Replacing x with y^2 in the second equation gives y^4- y^3- 2y^2= y^2(y^2- y- 1)= y^2(y+ 1)(y- 2)= 0.
 
  • Like
Likes NiallBucks
Sorry by 'try it' I meant solved for zero and I used sqrt(x) because I was trying to solve it in x instead of y. Your way makes much more sense and solved the problem! Thanks a million
 
NiallBucks said:

Homework Statement


X'=x-y^2 Y'=x^2 -xy -2x

Homework Equations


Find the critical point of this system.

The Attempt at a Solution


I know one point is (0,0).
When I tried it I got sqrt(x)= 2 and sqrt(x)= 1 but the point (1,1) doesn't fit later parts of the question. I'm also aware that since a sqrt can have positive and negative values then (4, -2) can also equal zero.
There are two things wrong with this sentence.
1) By definition, the square root of a nonnegative number represents a single value. For example, ##\sqrt{4} = + 2##. Period. You are mistaken to think that ##\sqrt{4} = \pm 2##.
2) "then (4, -2) can also equal zero." -- No. (4, -2) is a point in the plane. It cannot equal a single number such as zero.

BTW, (4, -2) is also NOT a solution of the equations below.
NiallBucks said:
Am I missing something obvious?
Set both X' and Y' to 0 and solve the resulting equations simultaneously.
IOW, solve
##x - y^2 = 0##
##x^2 - xy - 2x = 0##
It helps to use one of the equations to substitute in the other.
There are three solutions, one of which is (0, 0), which you already found. (1, 1) is NOT a solution, nor is (4, -2)..
 
Question: A clock's minute hand has length 4 and its hour hand has length 3. What is the distance between the tips at the moment when it is increasing most rapidly?(Putnam Exam Question) Answer: Making assumption that both the hands moves at constant angular velocities, the answer is ## \sqrt{7} .## But don't you think this assumption is somewhat doubtful and wrong?

Similar threads

  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K