Finding Equilibriums on a Cone with a Chain Loop

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    Chain Cone Loop
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of finding equilibrium states for a loop of chain placed on a right circular cone. Participants explore the conditions under which the chain can achieve equilibrium, considering both theoretical and practical implications of the setup, including the effects of gravity and friction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if friction is neglected, the horizontal plane may be the only equilibrium point, speculating that increasing gravity could lead the chain to rest flat.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of variational calculus and presents a theorem regarding the number of equilibrium points based on the cone's vertex angle, stating that for certain angles, there are two equilibria, while for others, only one exists.
  • There is a mention of the center of mass and potential energy considerations, indicating that the horizontal position minimizes potential energy among certain configurations.
  • A participant expresses interest in the definitive answer to the problem, indicating a desire for clarity on the number of equilibria.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the number of equilibrium states, with some proposing that only the horizontal plane is stable under certain conditions, while others argue for the existence of additional equilibria based on the cone's geometry.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about friction and the mathematical treatment of the problem, which may affect the conclusions drawn. The dependence on the cone's vertex angle introduces further complexity that remains unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying mechanics, variational calculus, or anyone exploring equilibrium problems in physics and engineering contexts.

wrobel
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Imagine a right circular cone with smooth surface. The cone is stated such that its axis is parallel to the standard gravitational field g. And you have a piece a thin homogeneous chain. Then you connect the tips of the chain to obtain a loop. You put this loop on the cone:
bfc69151eab9.png

It is clear, there is a state such that whole the loop forms the circle and rests in the horizontal plane. Are there another equilibriums? How many equilibriums does this system have?

(I know the answer and the solution. It is just for those who doesn't know what to do on weekends evenings :) I enjoyed solving this problem and share it with PF :)
 
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If we neglect friction then, I would guess that it resting in the horizontal plane is the only equilibrium point. Not wanting to get into the calculus of veriations, if I imagine just turning the gravity up to absurd levels, it seems like the chain would end up resting flat.

Also, if we consider the set of chain positions of ellipses on the cone, then the circle in the horizontal plane is where the center of mass of the chain would be lowest (of that set), and where the chain would have a minimum total potential energy.

But then, ellipses are just a small subset of possible ways to wrap a chain once around a cone. I'd be interested in knowing what the real answer is, though.
 
Yes indeed it is a task for variational calculus. Let ##\beta\in(0,\pi)## stand for the cone's vertex angle.

Theorem. If ##\pi/3<\beta<\pi/2## then wrapped once loop of the chain has only two (up to rotational symmetry) equilibriums: 1) the trivial one when whole the chain is in the horizontal plane and 2) some another equilibrium when the loop is not belonged to any plane.
For all other values of ##\beta## there is only trivial equilibrium.
 
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