Finding image of linear transformation (difficult)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the image of a linear transformation represented by a given matrix. Participants explore the implications of linear transformations in the context of vector spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss using a basis of the domain to find the image of the transformation. There are attempts to calculate the images of basis vectors and questions about the meaning of the set spanned by these vectors. Some participants express confusion about the calculations and the definitions involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion has progressed with participants calculating the images of basis vectors and discussing the implications of these calculations. Guidance has been offered regarding the concept of spanning sets and subspaces, with some participants expressing understanding while others seek clarification on specific points.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the definitions and properties of linear transformations, particularly in relation to the image and subspaces. Participants are also navigating the requirements of the homework task, which includes proving that the image forms a subspace.

andrey21
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1. Find the image of the linear transformation whose matrix is given by:

1 2 5 2
4 -3 1 0
10 -13 -7 -4


Homework Equations





3. Tried numerous times but struggle to get anywhere
 
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Take a basis of the domain, preferably (1,0,0,0), (0,1,0,0), (0,0,1,0), (0,0,0,1). Then the image of this basis will span the image of the linear transformation (but it won't be a basis in general). You can use this to find the image of this transformation...
 
Thanks micromass I sort of understand what u are saying could u possibly start me off with the calcuation.
 
Take the basis element (1,0,0,0) and calculate it's image.
The image of a vector x under a matrix A is Ax. So it's just a matrix multiplication...
 
So the taking the basis element (1,0,0,0):

T(1,0,0,0) = (1,4,10,0) ?
 
No, T(1,0,0,0) = (1,4,10). I'm not sure how you found that zero in the end...
 
Yep sorry I don't know why i put the extra zero in so:

T(1,0,0,0) = (1,4,10)
T(0,1,0,0) = (2,-3,-13)
T(0,0,1,0) = (5,1,-7)
T(0,0,0,1) = (2,0,-4)
Correct?
 
Yes, correct :approve:

Now the set spanned by those four vectors will be your image.
 
Ok sorry if seems dumb but the set spanned, what does this mean exactly?
 
  • #10
The set spanned by some vectors is the set of all linear combinations of these vectors.
 
  • #11
Im really confused how would this calcultion start?
 
  • #12
Setting Ax = 0 and solving to find echelon form:

1 2 5 2
0 11 19 8
0 0 0 0
 
  • #13
There are no calculations anymore. You already found the answer...
 
  • #14
So that is the image of the linear transform?
 
  • #15
The answer is just that the image is the set of all linear combinations of (1,4,10), (2,-3,-13), (5,1,-7) and (2,0,-4). Explicitly:

Image=\{\alpha(1,4,10)+\beta(2,-3,-13)+\gamma(5,1,-7)+\delta(2,0,-4)~\vert~\alpha,\beta,\gamma,\delta\in \mathbb{R}\}

You can span the image with less then 4 vectors however, but this doesn't seem to be the question...
 
  • #16
Ah i see well the next part of the question goes on to say:

Give three vectprs which are in the image?
 
  • #17
Thats not to difficult is it? You've found four vectors which is in the image, so you've got three vectors to...
 
  • #18
Yes I understand now so I can just take 3 of the 4 vectors used. The final part of the question says show explicity that image forms a subspace. So i should just use vectors and make sure satisfy the axioms?
 
  • #19
Yeah, there are many ways to do this. But what you suggest seems good...
 
  • #20
Great Thanks for all ur help micromass :)
 
  • #21
Sorry micromass quick qustion as i have stated above i could use vectors to prove the image forms a subspace of R^3. How would I go about doing this, sub in vectors to the image?
 
  • #22
You could prove this in general. Let T:V--> W be a linear transformation, then im(T) is a subspace of W.
You'll only need to prove that
1) 0 in im(T)
2) v+w in im(T) whenever v,w in im(T)
3) av in im(T) whenever a in R and w in im(T).
 
  • #23
Ah I see so:

1) 0 in image(T) would that just be (0,0,0) ?
 
  • #24
Yes, I am sorry, with 0 I just meant (0,0,0)...
 
  • #25
Rite so showing (0,0,0 is in im(T) would just be a case of subbing that into the image? Say swappping (1,4,10) for (0,0,0) ?
 
  • #26
No. (0,0,0) is in the image because T(0,0,0,0)=(0,0,0).
 
  • #27
Yep I understand now. With the addition axiom shall I just add (1,0,0,0) and (0,1,0,0) for example. Therefore giving me a vector (3,1,-3) ?

And finally with the scaler multiplication axiom:

2.(1,0,0,0) = 2.(1,4,10) = (2,8,20) ?
 
  • #28
Is this correct micromass?
 
  • #29
Yes, I can see what you mean and it is correct.
However, I must also tell you to watch your notation: writing that 2.(1,0,0,0) = 2.(1,4,10) is not correct. You have to write 2.f(1,0,0,0) = 2.(1,4,10)...
 
  • #30
Oh why is the f there just out of curiosity?
 

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