Finding Integral of a Divided Function (Hyperbola?)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the integration of the function ∫((y+0.5)/(0.5-y)) dy between y=0 and y=-0.5. Participants are exploring methods to approach this integral, which appears to involve rational functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss various methods for integration, including the quotient rule, logarithmic approaches, and rationalizing the denominator. There is uncertainty about how to effectively simplify the expression for integration.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered hints and alternative methods, such as performing long division on the expression. Others express confusion regarding the hints provided and the concept of integrating with a remainder. The conversation reflects a mix of understanding and uncertainty, with no clear consensus on the best approach yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention that the problem may be outside their current scope, indicating potential constraints in their understanding or experience with similar integrals.

Mathpower
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Homework Statement


Integrate between y=0 and y=-0.5:
∫((y+0.5)/(0.5-y)) dy

Homework Equations


Can you please show me how to integrate it...Then I will be able to take it from there and substitute in the appropriate values.


The Attempt at a Solution


Quotient rule in reverse?...wouldn't work
Using ln ...wouldn't work
Try to factorise...nope
Use rationalising of denominator (conjugate idea)...that just makes it even more complicated
Now I have run out of ideas ...this is out of my scope. (Scholarship paper NZ)

Thank you in advance,
Kindest Regards.
 
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Mathpower said:

Homework Statement


Integrate between y=0 and y=-0.5:
∫((y+0.5)/(0.5-y)) dy

Homework Equations


Can you please show me how to integrate it...Then I will be able to take it from there and substitute in the appropriate values.


The Attempt at a Solution


Quotient rule in reverse?...wouldn't work
Using ln ...wouldn't work
Try to factorise...nope
Use rationalising of denominator (conjugate idea)...that just makes it even more complicated
Now I have run out of ideas ...this is out of my scope. (Scholarship paper NZ)

Thank you in advance,
Kindest Regards.

Hint: Divide the numerator by the denominator to make the degree of the numerator one less than the degree of the denominator.
 
Hmmm...Thanks for the hint, but I don't get what you meant here...
Isn't the numerator already being divided by the denominator and aren't they to the same degree anyway?
 
Write it as$$
-\frac{y + \frac 1 2}{y -\frac 1 2}$$
and do one step of a long division writing it as quotient + remainder/divisor.

Alternatively you could write it as$$
-\frac {(y-\frac 1 2)+1}{(y-\frac 1 2)}$$and break it into two terms. It's the same result either way.
 
Mathpower said:
Hmmm...Thanks for the hint, but I don't get what you meant here...
Isn't the numerator already being divided by the denominator and aren't they to the same degree anyway?
Yes, they're the same degree, so use some sort of division algorithm to find a quotient & remainder.
 
Nice! I like the alternative (because its the only thing I understood) from LCKurtz...rationalising the denominator.
The rest of it didn't make much sense...how can you integrate with a remainder! (I must be missing something)
Thank you so much for all your help.

P.S.: Sorry for not being able to understand what you guys said.

Kindest Regards
 
Mathpower said:
Nice! I like the alternative (because its the only thing I understood) from LCKurtz...rationalising the denominator.
The rest of it didn't make much sense...how can you integrate with a remainder! (I must be missing something)
Thank you so much for all your help.

P.S.: Sorry for not being able to understand what you guys said.

Kindest Regards
Here's how that remainder works:

Write the remainder of 1 as a fraction.

\displaystyle \frac{1}{y-\frac{1}{2}}

So that \displaystyle -\frac {(y+\frac 1 2)}{(y-\frac 1 2)}=-\left(1+\frac{1}{y-\frac{1}{2}}\right)

Although expressions like the one here, I often use the same method as LCKurtz showed you. For more complicated situations, you should know how to express the remainder as a fraction.
 

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