Finding Subgroups of certain orders

  • Context: Undergrad 
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding subgroups of the symmetric group S_4, specifically those of order 4. Participants explore methods for constructing and identifying these subgroups, as well as the implications of subgroup orders related to the elements they contain.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to find or construct subgroups of S_4 of order 4, seeking advice.
  • Another participant mentions a specific example of a 4-cycle in S_n and questions the properties of the subgroup generated by it.
  • A participant reports progress in generating a subgroup of order 4 using the 4-cycle (1 2 3 4) and lists its elements, questioning the correctness of their findings.
  • This participant also notes a theorem regarding the necessity for subgroup elements to divide the order of the subgroup and inquires about the need to check elements of order 2 for forming subgroups of order 4.
  • They express difficulty in finding subgroups using elements of order 2, specifically mentioning challenges with the element (12)(34).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the methods for finding subgroups or the correctness of the subgroup elements identified. Multiple approaches and uncertainties remain present in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need for subgroup elements to divide the order of the subgroup, but the implications of this theorem and its application to specific elements remain unresolved. The discussion includes attempts to verify subgroup properties through multiplication, which leads to further questions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals studying group theory, particularly those interested in symmetric groups and subgroup structures.

RVP91
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I'm not sure how for example I would go about finding the subgroups of S_4 of order 4?

I don't quite understand how I would I find or construct subgroups for a permutation group?

Any advice?

Thanks
 
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RVP91 said:
I'm not sure how for example I would go about finding the subgroups of S_4 of order 4?

I don't quite understand how I would I find or construct subgroups for a permutation group?

Any advice?

Thanks

1 ->2 ->3 ->4 ->1
1 ->3 ->2 ->4 ->1 for example
 
Suppose [itex]\sigma \in S_n[/itex] is a 4-cycle. What can you say about [itex]\langle \sigma \rangle[/itex]?
 
After using both your advice I think I have made some progress.

I used (1 2 3 4) and generated a subgroup of order 4, this subgroup was, {id, (1234), (13)(24), (1432)}, is this correct? And this is of order 4 so meets the condition.
I also did the same with (1324).

After reading a theorem I concluded if I want the subgroups to be of order 4 then the elements of the subgroups must divide 4. So since I've done the two for 4 would I know need to do the same for elements of order 2? Is there a shortcut or do I have to compute them all to check they form subgroups of order 4?

After attempting this with for example (12)(34) I found the usual method of multiplying by itself to try and find a group quickly failed since (12)(34)(12)(34) is simply id.

How do I find the subgroups using elements of order 2?

Thanks for the previous advice and an advance thanks for anymore
 

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