Finding the charge on a capacitor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the charge on capacitor 2 in a circuit involving multiple resistors and capacitors, with specific attention to the effects of closing switches on the charge distribution. The scope includes theoretical analysis and mathematical reasoning related to circuit behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related, Mathematical reasoning, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the initial conditions and equations governing charge flow when switches are closed, expressing uncertainty about the voltage across capacitors due to missing information.
  • Another participant shares their calculations and results, indicating a discrepancy between their answer and the expected result, prompting a request for feedback on their approach.
  • Some participants question the initial conditions of capacitor 2, arguing that with switch 1 open, capacitor 2 should not have any charge due to the lack of voltage across it.
  • A later reply acknowledges the previous misunderstanding regarding the charge on capacitor 2, suggesting that this could impact the calculations made earlier.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the initial charge of capacitor 2 and its implications for the calculations. There is no consensus on the correct approach or the validity of the initial assumptions regarding the circuit.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of a specified voltage source (E2) and the implications of this on their calculations. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the initial state of capacitor 2 and how it affects the overall circuit analysis.

diredragon
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Homework Statement


IMG_2502.JPG
[/B]
##E_1=6V##
##E_3=5V##
##R_1=150Ω##
##R_2=R_3=100Ω##
##R_4=50Ω##
##R_5=300Ω##
##C_1=1.5 mF##
##C_2=0.5mF##
Text:
In the first condition when the switches 1 and 2 are open the capacitor 2 has charge on it. First the switch 1 closes and the charge flow of ##q_1=1 mC## is established to flow through the branch as shown in the picture. Then the switch 2 closes and the flow is now ##q_2=-1.4mC##. Find the initial charge on capacitor 2 (##Q_{20}##).

Homework Equations


3. The Attempt at a Solution [/B]
My only problem here is with the charge division. Correct me if I'm wrong here:
When the switch 1 closes the voltage across 1 and two must be the same so we have:
##q_{11}+q_{12}=q_1##
##\frac{q_{11}}{C_1}=\frac{Q_{20}+q_{12}}{C_2}##
I can't find the voltage they're equal to because i don't have ##E_2## but i do have the change when the switch 2 closes. So:
##\frac{q_{11}+q_{21}}{C_1}=\frac{Q_{20}+q_{12}+q_{22}}{C_2}##
The change is then just:
##ΔU_{c1}=\frac{q_{21}}{C_1}##
##ΔU_{c2}=\frac{q_{22}}{C_2}##
And ##q_{12}+q_{21}=q_2## and from there i can find the ##q_{12}## and ##q_{22}## and have the change in the voltage while my Δ-circuit looks like this:
IMG_2503.JPG

Where finding the current is trivial. Is this the right track?
Thanks
 
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I continued along this road and i got a wrong answer. I will now post my full work so you can see where I'm wrong.
Strarting from the delta circuit where I am trying to find the current ##ΔI_g## i have this:
1) ##ΔU=\frac{q21}{C1}=\frac{q22}{C2}##
2) ##q21+q22=q2=-1.4##
##q21=\frac{C1}{C2}q22##
and from this i get ##q21=-0.35##,##q22=-1.05##
so ##ΔU=-0.7 V## and i can continue finding the current ##ΔI_g##
Using the current divider i see that:
##ΔU=ΔI_gR4+R2ΔI_d=ΔI_gR4+R2\frac{R3}{R2+R3+R5}ΔI_g##
and from here ##ΔI_g=-0.01A##
Now goind back to the original circuit, where i have the current through the branch when the switch closes i have enough information to find ##E_2## which later i can use to find the voltages across the capacitors. From mesh current analysis get that the loops that make ##ΔIg## are some ##IB and IA##
So by arbitrary choice:
##ΔI_g=I_b-I_a## and by means of mesh i get ##I_b## because i only need that one. I could go the other way but i need E2 then.
Here is the picture of the work:
IMG_2506.JPG

I get ##Q=2mC## while the answer is ##Q=-0.1mC##
Where and what is wrong?
 
I'm not sure why E2 is not given.

Nonetheless, with Switch 1 open, C2 is just dangling. There is no voltage across it so it cannot have a charge on it. On the other hand, C1 will have a charge on it.

This changes most of what you did initially and will affect everything beyond that point.
 
magoo said:
I'm not sure why E2 is not given.

Nonetheless, with Switch 1 open, C2 is just dangling. There is no voltage across it so it cannot have a charge on it. On the other hand, C1 will have a charge on it.

This changes most of what you did initially and will affect everything beyond that point.
It shouldn't change anything initially since the change is considered when the switch 2 closes so ##ΔU## remains as it is regardless of the initial charge of Q1 and it makes appearance only at the end, but i supposed that it is uncharged since its stated that C2 has charge on it.
 
OK, I see the point about having a trapped charge on C2. Sorry about that.
 

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