Finding the Lowest Position of a Kinematics Mechanism: A Mathematical Challenge

  • Thread starter Thread starter Matik
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Kinematics
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical challenge related to a kinematic mechanism, specifically determining the lowest position of a point (B1) in the mechanism. Participants explore various mathematical approaches and geometrical interpretations to solve the problem, which is rooted in kinematics and involves known dimensions and velocities.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a task involving a kinematic mechanism with a known constant velocity and specific dimensions, seeking a mathematical method to determine the lowest position of point B1.
  • Another participant inquires whether point D is a pinned joint, clarifying that it is a mobile joint.
  • Dimensions and values for the mechanism are provided, including lengths and angular velocity, with a participant expressing confidence in their plotted positions but seeking a more accurate mathematical solution.
  • A participant suggests that if B1 is at its lowest position, its velocity should be zero, proposing that the velocity at point D should be perpendicular to DB1.
  • Another participant proposes a potentially simpler geometrical approach, suggesting expressing the vertical position of B1 in terms of an angle and finding the derivative to locate the minimum.
  • Clarification is requested regarding the variables used in the proposed geometrical approach, specifically what y and θ represent.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method to solve the problem, with multiple approaches being discussed and no clear resolution to the mathematical challenge presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the mechanism's configuration and the relationships between the velocities and angles, which remain unresolved. The mathematical steps and relationships proposed by participants are not fully established or agreed upon.

Matik
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Hello community. I have a task from my college and no matter how hard i tried i failed to find a solution for it. The task itself is resolvable (by drawing) but i can't figure the mathematical way to solve it. And it bothers me so bad.

Homework Statement


So i have this kinematics mechanism. At the OA lever i have a known constant velocity, let's say - ω with direction counter clockwise around point O. I have given these dimensions: OA, AB, AD, DB1 and h aswell. My task is to determine the lowest position of element/point B1. Of course i plotted enough points and determined that (see the picture)... but there should be mathematical way to determine this. And i can't find it.

Initialy i thought... the lowest position of B1 is when OA is alongside to DB1. But i was wrong. Then i thought that if the velocity that occurs at point D is perpendicular to DB1 then the velocity at point B1 will be equal to 0. But this solution does not match with the position from the picture either.
c61b0913e8ff7f0c54fdd1f710bc176a_610x0.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
Is point D a pinned joint?
 
No, its a mobile joint. My bad, i fixed it:
8cdee899b4e775f1755113f269d2da1a_610x0.jpg
 
Last edited:
is length B1-D less than h?
 
.
 
Last edited:
No. Here are all dimensions and values i have:

OA = 0.45m
AB = 1.1m
BD = 1.6m
B1D=0.65m
h=0.5m
ωoa = 4 rad/s (counter clockwise)

I already plotted full cycle with 6 positions and by the lowest position of B1 there i plotted another 10-12 points near it, increasing the resolution. Thus i found (roughly) the lowest position of B1 shown on the picture up there. But i still think there has to be another - much more accurate and mathmatical way to solve this.

I think that if B1 is in the lowest position its velocity should be equal to 0. Therefore at point D velocity should be perpendicular to DB1:
ωoa =Voa . OA We have ωoa and OA so Voa is known. If we separate vector Voa by sinα.Voa and cosα.Voa we will have at point B - ωbd=(sinα.Voa)/AB and the point D this velocity will be vector Vda=ωbd.BD=(sinα.Voa).(BD/AB) plus the other vector cosα.Voa. But when i calculate and plot them it doesn't seems to be perpendicular at all. And i can't figure it out why is that.
f20adbd01f3bb89d589b2961bc8cf21c_610x0.jpg
 
I think your approach looks valid. However, might a simpler be simply geometrical? Can you express y in terms of θ? Then set dy/dθ=0.
 
I didn't understand you. What are y and θ?
 
y is the vertical position of point B1 and theta is the angle OA makes with the x-axis.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
7K